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Question about the Mark series graphic EQ modeling

Rex

Legend!
Can you please elaborate on that? I can see that if you turn up the mid and treble that the relative balance is one of less bass, but does this also reduce the absolute amount of bass?
The relative balance is all that matters.
 

Melten

Inspired
The relative balance is all that matters.
Well, maybe? Within a specific domain, perhaps (e.g. the tone coming out at the end of the signal chain). A tube amp seems to have very complicated interactions between all the internal components, though. If, say, all of the BMT knobs have the same taper, surely these settings all on 5 will hit the power amp with lower volume compared to the same BMT knobs at 10, right? Perhaps you could reduce the master volume level to account for that, but is it so simple? Maybe it is.
 

ETOLKIEN

Experienced
Dunning-Kruger. The more you know about something the more you realize you don't know everything. The less you know the more you think you know.
I'm not surprised that Kruger and Dunning won an Ig Nobel Prize in 2000 because the whole concept is a rehash!! This is as old as humanity and has been mentioned many times throughout history from Confucius to Darwin (and I think the Socrates hemlock also has something to do).
 

Jozsef Kiss

Inspired
" ...Minél többet tudsz valamiről, annál jobban rájössz, hogy nem tud mindent. Minél kevésbé tudod, minél többet tudsz. "
Szuper!!!
 

yeky83

Power User
Can you please elaborate on that? I can see that if you turn up the mid and treble that the relative balance is one of less bass, but does this also reduce the absolute amount of bass?
Here's an example of pot taper differences:


If you were to have a Linear pot tonestack and put Bass at 0 while Mid&Treb at 50% rotation, it's going to give you a lot more Mid&Treb than if you were to do the same with Log taper pots. You would have to put Mid&Treb pots at ~70% with Log pots to match the Linear pots at 50%.
 

Melten

Inspired
Here's an example of pot taper differences:


If you were to have a Linear pot tonestack and put Bass at 0 while Mid&Treb at 50% rotation, it's going to give you a lot more Mid&Treb than if you were to do the same with Log taper pots. You would have to put Mid&Treb pots at ~70% with Log pots to match the Linear pots at 50%.
Thanks for the picture, but I think I get that part of it. It's just that the original comment from FractalAudio seemed to be suggesting that to achieve less bass from the preamp to increase the mid and treble. But is that all that's necessary? I'm not sure what that has to do with the taper of the pots, either way. Anyway, not trying to be combative, just want to understand how to think about this stuff.
 

yeky83

Power User
Thanks for the picture, but I think I get that part of it. It's just that the original comment from FractalAudio seemed to be suggesting that to achieve less bass from the preamp to increase the mid and treble. But is that all that's necessary? I'm not sure what that has to do with the taper of the pots, either way. Anyway, not trying to be combative, just want to understand how to think about this stuff.
"On a Mark V the tapers are different so you get more midrange and treble for the same settings" therefore it's perceived as less bass.
 

666was999

Power User
Thanks for the picture, but I think I get that part of it. It's just that the original comment from FractalAudio seemed to be suggesting that to achieve less bass from the preamp to increase the mid and treble. But is that all that's necessary? I'm not sure what that has to do with the taper of the pots, either way. Anyway, not trying to be combative, just want to understand how to think about this stuff.

Linear faders add/cut the same amount of power on every step of their way, but our ears mean that there's more on the first part of their range and less at the rest of the way.

Log-Tapers/Audio Tapers add/cut less power at first but then do more at the end. Our ears get that as an almost linear behavior (which is a misleading impression, our hearing is logarithmic, but we don't get that in our brains and think in a linear way).

The results are the same when the faders are at the very ends if their way, but on the way the difference is big. Because of the logarithmic hearing you better go 'ears not eyes' to make two such amps sound identical.
 

666was999

Power User
Ah well, the preassumption is that these mesa eqs are never set all flat, at least at the real amps they are never.
 

DLC86

Fractal Fanatic
Thanks for the picture, but I think I get that part of it. It's just that the original comment from FractalAudio seemed to be suggesting that to achieve less bass from the preamp to increase the mid and treble. But is that all that's necessary? I'm not sure what that has to do with the taper of the pots, either way. Anyway, not trying to be combative, just want to understand how to think about this stuff.
What Cliff meant is that your amp could have linear (or different log) taper pots for the mid and treble knobs, if that's the case a knob set to 1 on the amp corresponds to 5 on the axe.
 

Melten

Inspired
What Cliff meant is that your amp could have linear (or different log) taper pots for the mid and treble knobs, if that's the case a knob set to 1 on the amp corresponds to 5 on the axe.
Oh ok. I think I misinterpreted completely then. Thanks!
 

ML SOUND LAB

Cab Pack Wizard
Vendor
On an amp like this the treble knob adds a lot of gain so if I set it higher... would I then have to compensate by lowering the drive knobs?
 

yeky83

Power User
On an amp like this the treble knob adds a lot of gain so if I set it higher... would I then have to compensate by lowering the drive knobs?
Probably? And you'd have to think about the potential drive knob taper difference as well, so that might not be visually 1:1 either.
 

shatteredsquare

Fractal Fanatic
Channel 3 on a Mark V is virtually identical to the Mark IV Lead channel except for the pot tapers.
pot tapers it is! good thing the AFX3 has more tone/gain knob range than the amps do in a lot of cases, that way you can tune by ear to match it up to how you remember. A rabbit hole of possibilities!
 
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