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Question about the Mark series graphic EQ modeling

Vecordia

New here
Does anyone know if the sliders from the 5 control graphic eq of the Mesa Mark model (CII+ and CII++) have an identical range as in the real amp. In other words, for example, I put a slider on the Axe fx model at , say, +10 or -10, does that same slider on the real amp at max or min position produce the exact same result?

I was just wondering if this is what was intended by design on the axe fx (identical representstion of the real amp), or maybe the axe fx sliders have some additional range beyond the real sliders to offer the ability to further add /reduce gain from that point.

Sorry if this has already been discussed, but I have not been able to find any post about it.

Thanks in advance guys!
 

shatteredsquare

Forum Addict
They have way more range on the models, up about 5.5 or 6.0 on the models is equivalent to way up towards the top on a mark IV...once the preamp is dialed in just bump the sliders one by one till it comes into focus the way you need
 

phil92

Inspired
They have way more range on the models, up about 5.5 or 6.0 on the models is equivalent to way up towards the top on a mark IV...once the preamp is dialed in just bump the sliders one by one till it comes into focus the way you need
I don't think that's correct: the EQ on the actual amp has a nominal range of -12 to +12 dB

where did you find this info?
 

Vecordia

New here
Thanks guys for your replies.
Being the nominal range of the real amp +12/-12dB, is there wny way to check if the range of the axe is also +-12dB?
The axe’s scale goes from -10 to +10, but i would say those are not dB, and rather a numeric division of the scale.
 

simeon

Axe-Master
i just tried testing this with an analyser and it looks to be somewhere between 5 and 6db in the model. btw, the axe says +-12 on the actual faders on the front panel, not +-10 (maybe that's just axe edit)
 

Vecordia

New here
The range of the sliders is the same as the amp. The taper is not. The amp is much more abrupt since it uses linear taper (should use 'S'-taper).
Thanks so much for the confirmation!!

I guess that a s-taper will be one in which, for example, 30% of travel will correspond to, say, 10% of output and 70% of travel does 90% of output?

Does this mean that at the model will behave in a smoother way than the real amp at the begining up until a point where it will behave more abruptly?
 

shatteredsquare

Forum Addict
where did you find this info?
if you're a fan of reading i thought it was in a thread like this https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/mesa-mark-series-graphic-eq-block.25097/page-3

but maybe i was thinking about the triaxis tone controls notes...the USA Pre tone controls have a wider range than the Triaxis...apparently the dB gain of the modeled Mark graphic EQ is the same as the amps, just different taper. everybody just put me on the ignore list, it will hurt less
 

ML SOUND LAB

Cab Pack Wizard
At least on my Mark V when I did the Boogey V Amp Pack I needed to do things a bit differently. Just to be clear about how I got these values, I measured my Mark V preamp from the FX loop with and without GEQ and then with the power amp separately until I got the amp sim to react like my real amp does. Here's a picture of one of the preset and the GEQ settings I used:



So essentially that's a pretty classic V shape in real life, not too scooped but "just right". To match these settings I have the GEQ block on my Axe-Fx III like this: 80hz 0.00, 240hz +3.00, 750hz -5.5, 2200hz -1.0, 6600hz -1.5. Like Cliff said the real life GEQ is "not very accurate" so to simulate that inaccuracy this is essentially what I had to do. Also my Mark V has way less low end in the preamp section than the USA Lead amp sims. The IIC++ model was much closer to my Mark V.
 

FractalAudio

Administrator
Fractal Audio Systems
Moderator
At least on my Mark V when I did the Boogey V Amp Pack I needed to do things a bit differently. Just to be clear about how I got these values, I measured my Mark V preamp from the FX loop with and without GEQ and then with the power amp separately until I got the amp sim to react like my real amp does. Here's a picture of one of the preset and the GEQ settings I used:



So essentially that's a pretty classic V shape in real life, not too scooped but "just right". To match these settings I have the GEQ block on my Axe-Fx III like this: 80hz 0.00, 240hz +3.00, 750hz -5.5, 2200hz -1.0, 6600hz -1.5. Like Cliff said the real life GEQ is "not very accurate" so to simulate that inaccuracy this is essentially what I had to do. Also my Mark V has way less low end in the preamp section than the USA Lead amp sims. The IIC++ model was much closer to my Mark V.
A Mark V doesn't have "way less low end in the preamp section". It simply has different tapers on the tone controls.

It's ignorant, blanket statements like this that drive me crazy...
 

ML SOUND LAB

Cab Pack Wizard
A Mark V doesn't have "way less low end in the preamp section". It simply has different tapers on the tone controls.

It's ignorant, blanket statements like this that drive me crazy...
There's no Mark V amp sim in the Axe-Fx right? Definitely not trying to be ignorant or drive anyone crazy. :) Simply sharing my experience when comparing my Mark V to the Axe-Fx. I don't know if it's the tapers or what the reason is but if I set the bass low on my Mark V in the Mark IV mode (this is what many people do to get the tightest sound possible) it's much less bass than on any of the USA Lead amp sims. Once again the Mark V is not the Mark IV so might just be that Mesa added more range to their knobs on the Mark V. However it may be I was able to make the Axe-Fx III, II and AX8 sound identical to my Mark V by using the IIC++ amp sim and raising the low cut in the amp block higher and playing with the controls a bit.
 

FractalAudio

Administrator
Fractal Audio Systems
Moderator
There's no Mark V amp sim in the Axe-Fx right? Definitely not trying to be ignorant or drive anyone crazy. :) Simply sharing my experience when comparing my Mark V to the Axe-Fx. I don't know if it's the tapers or what the reason is but if I set the bass low on my Mark V in the Mark IV mode (this is what many people do to get the tightest sound possible) it's much less bass than on any of the USA Lead amp sims. Once again the Mark V is not the Mark IV so might just be that Mesa added more range to their knobs on the Mark V. However it may be I was able to make the Axe-Fx III, II and AX8 sound identical to my Mark V by using the IIC++ amp sim and raising the low cut in the amp block higher and playing with the controls a bit.
Do you even understand what taper means? The IIC++ amp model is the same as the IIC+ with different tapers. Only proves my point.
 

ML SOUND LAB

Cab Pack Wizard
Do you even understand what taper means? The IIC++ amp model is the same as the IIC+ with different tapers. Only proves my point.
I'm actually pretty well educated on the matter. I'm also aware that you're much better educated on the matter which is why I haven't been trying to say that you're wrong nor will I try to do so now. The point I'm making is much simpler. If the bass knob of the Mark V on zero is much less bass than the tapers on any of the USA Lead or IIC++ amp models how do I turn the knob lower than zero on the Axe-Fx III?

This is where one would in layman's terms say "the Mark V has way less low end than the models on the Axe-Fx".

Just as a point of reference here's a social media post of John Petrucci's Mark V settings:


Those settings on my Mark V are super tight with a lot of gain. Even with the bass on zero on any of the USA Lead or IIC++ amp sims the bass isn't low enough to mimic that sound. If there's too much bass in the preamp it simply doesn't get tight enough.
 
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FractalAudio

Administrator
Fractal Audio Systems
Moderator
The point I'm making is much simpler. If the bass knob of the Mark V on zero is much less bass than the tapers on any of the USA Lead or IIC++ amp models how do I turn the knob lower than zero on the Axe-Fx III?
You don't, you turn the mid and treble up. Those controls have tapers too. On a Mark IV (at least on our reference amp) all three controls have a Log10A taper. On a Mark V the tapers are different so you get more midrange and treble for the same settings. Channel 3 on a Mark V is virtually identical to the Mark IV Lead channel except for the pot tapers.

Dunning-Kruger. The more you know about something the more you realize you don't know everything. The less you know the more you think you know.
 
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