Question about stereo vs mono effects live

We run both guitars in stereo, each one hard-panned to both left and right. This way everyone hears both guitars at the intended level of the FOH mixer, whether they’re closer to the left or right side of the audience, but there’s still a stereo image (and less phase cancellation) wherever you are.
Actually you're running neither guitar in stereo. You're running gtr1 hard left mono and gtr2 hard right mono. I guess you could say you're running "guitars" in stereo, but I'm defiantly getting caught up in symantics.
 
Actually you're running neither guitar in stereo. You're running gtr1 hard left mono and gtr2 hard right mono. I guess you could say you're running "guitars" in stereo, but I'm defiantly getting caught up in symantics.
No, we’re using 2 channels for each guitar.

Guitar 1 channel 1 is hard-panned L, guitar 1 channel 2 is hard-panned R.

Guitar 2 channel 1 is hard-panned L, guitar 2 channel 2 is hard-panned R.
 
The bottom line: If you're going to put two stereo guitars into a live mix, you'll need to sit down with the other guitarist (and probably the band leader) and figure out what you're trying to accomplish. Design your presets around each other, and remember that you're their to serve the song, not to preserve the guitarists' stereo coolness. :)
That's exactly the point of my question "how each of you would like to manage two guitarists with stereo axefx signals to serve the show the best ?"
Imagine both guitarists playing rythms and leads but at different moments, or maybe different main riffs at the same time...

I imagined once a way to use scenes and manage balance with it (scene one left side only crunch, scene two stereo crunch to back up the other guitarist's solo, scene 3 stereo lead, scene 4 left side only lead for special stuffs...) But it looks like hell to manage live :D

I guess the answer to my question is to stop thinking about balance of stereo guitars, but more about how to make them sound distinct even if they are dead center.
 
Oh damn!

I am so glad I came across this thread. My new side project is considering a similar stereo setup:

Guitar 1 channel 1 is hard-panned L, guitar 1 channel 2 is hard-panned R.

Guitar 2 channel 1 is hard-panned L, guitar 2 channel 2 is hard-panned R.

If any of you’ll have tried this and would love to suggest cab combos that work well in such a setup, please do so here

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/thre...ons-for-a-live-situation.156795/#post-1867375
 
Take this with a grain of salt if you like, but I was inspired by sound engineer Dave Rat a few years ago to start running just about every instrument in our band in stereo (all hard-panned at the mixer). I use hard-panned cabs on pretty much every preset on the Axe, but I make sure that both the left and right sides sounds great on their own. This way, you have the advantage of mono (not worrying about whether the audience can hear everything in the mix if they’re standing closer to one speaker), but you get the benefit of stereo for the majority of the audience, not to mention less phase cancellation between the two PA speakers, at least for each signal that is run in stereo.

This is the video that inspired me to go this route. Before you knock it, listen to his logic and examples.
Yes - a very intelligent overview by Dave Rat; explaining a practical approach to comb filtering and other probs. Thank you getlostinsound for posting the link.
I'm awaiting my FM9, graduating from an FM2 mk2. This confirms my current practice of asking for the FOH channels to be hard-panned left and right on the desk.
I had also concluded that as most venues run 'nearfield' FOH speakers along the front of stages, most folks close-in don't suffer a stereo blind spot. At really small gigs, satellite FOH speakers work best pointing slightly inwards to 'cover' a space - usually the dance floor. This ensures a stereo overlap.
Also, stereo effects do work best when there's movement or active modulation. That movement is can be heard at all positions.
But Dave Rat's thesis makes it clear that even though there may be differences in how people to the sides may hear the sound, that's nothing like as problematic as the phase and filter problems of mono FOH. In fact, as he says, these differences are natural, are not actually problematic. I also like his ideas about double-mic'ing kick drums, guitars et al, to ensure stereo diversification.
Maybe the problem some people have with FOH stereo comes from thinking about it from a headphone perspective where the brain imagines the centrally positioned instruments by combining the two completely separate audio signals? Live sound is never going to be separate like that, and an engineer mixing FOH will have some instruments in the centre of the mix, and some spread to either side - usually related to where they're actually standing on the stage. This is a valuable way of preventing instruments of similar frequencies being lost in the mix.
A similar approach works with Fractal stereo; for example dry guitar in the centre with modulated effects panned left and right. You can do a version of this inside the box. Fractal outputs also allow you to run an actual WDW - three channels to the mixing desk for the engineer to mix into the overall FOH.
With a three-piece band like mine, even using just a small pa this gives the guitar a huge lift when using modulated effects in stereo. I have a couple of great "real" amps - a 1966 AC30 and a new Lucky J 5E3-type amp. Less so these days with the ancient AC30, but with the 5E3, the real amp can take a split direct from the guitar and do what it does (a Lehle Dual ABY works great), while the Axe handles the effects - and anything else weird and wonderful that we want to do. But equally, you can achieve pretty much this out of the box...
Sorry to go off on one.... anybody thinking along the same lines as me might find this interesting ;-)
 
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I use a Vox AC10 as output for my AX8 so mono it is! And does it ever sound fantastic cranked!
 
Wow, that video is eye opening. How different have the IRs to be, to prevent the described effects? Is it difference big enough, when I use an IR from the same cab with same mics, but a different mix of the mics?
Now I am using one multi mic mix IR and go from there to my monitor and the FOH mixer.
Can I use a similar IR for R/L or should the be very different (like SM57 Left and 121 Right)?
 
I have duplicate presets of all my setlists. One set of song presets is in stereo and one in mono. That way I can choose which ones I want depending on which equipment I bring with me or which equipment the particular venue is capable of handling.
 
Is there any purpose to going mono out both L and R?

Just curious if people think this is absolutely redundant or has some benefits (like increased volume, richness of the sound, spreading sound) etc?
 
Is there any purpose to going mono out both L and R?
I'm not sure what you mean. If you have both left and right speakers, and you're running mono, then you're already sending mono to both L and R.
 
I'm not sure what you mean. If you have both left and right speakers, and you're running mono, then you're already sending mono to both L and R.
True. What I meant is if running mono is there is a purpose in having two outputs (like both a left and right speaker). Or just one powerful speaker?

I run both stereo and mono out of my AX8 by using output 1 L and R 1/4 inch humbuster cables.

For stereo I can see this being required as well as a PA guy (FOH) requiring two cable inputs.

But for a mono signal many FOH only have one input for a cable. Will they actually accept two inputs for a mono signal? I.E Both the L and R out of my output 1? Or will they tell me to detach one of them?
 
No sense feeding two identical mono signals into the same end device. Would make sense to send one to the PA and the 2nd to your stage monitor if needed.
 
True. What I meant is if running mono is there is a purpose in having two outputs (like both a left and right speaker). Or just one powerful speaker?

I run both stereo and mono out of my AX8 by using output 1 L and R 1/4 inch humbuster cables.

For stereo I can see this being required as well as a PA guy (FOH) requiring two cable inputs.

But for a mono signal many FOH only have one input for a cable. Will they actually accept two inputs for a mono signal? I.E Both the L and R out of my output 1? Or will they tell me to detach one of them?
I just getting started with my soon to be first FAS purchase--buying AXE FX 3 and Seymour Duncan Powerstage 700 amp going to my 2 Mesa Boogie cabinets (2 x 12). Many on this list in another thread told me that FAS Humbuster Cables is not needed unless there is a major buzz or noise issue. Can you share your experience with Humbuster cables---are you using FAS factory made humbuster cables or did you ma
 
True. What I meant is if running mono is there is a purpose in having two outputs (like both a left and right speaker). Or just one powerful speaker?

I run both stereo and mono out of my AX8 by using output 1 L and R 1/4 inch humbuster cables.

For stereo I can see this being required as well as a PA guy (FOH) requiring two cable inputs.

But for a mono signal many FOH only have one input for a cable. Will they actually accept two inputs for a mono signal? I.E Both the L and R out of my output 1? Or will they tell me to detach one of them?
I just getting started with my soon to be first FAS purchase--buying AXE FX 3 and Seymour Duncan Powerstage 700 amp to go to my 2 Mesa Boogie cabinets ( two--2 x 12's). Many on this list in another thread told me that FAS Humbuster Cables is not needed unless there is a major buzz or noise issue. Can you share your experience with Humbuster cables---are you using FAS factory made humbuster cables or did you make your own? Were you having noise issues and then used Humbuster cables. Can you share your stereo rig equipment and share how you are using/creating stereo presets. Do you typically find stereo presets you like and then tweak them or do you start from scratch. I really appreciate your sharing, advice, recommendations.
 
I just getting started with my soon to be first FAS purchase--buying AXE FX 3 and Seymour Duncan Powerstage 700 amp to go to my 2 Mesa Boogie cabinets ( two--2 x 12's). Many on this list in another thread told me that FAS Humbuster Cables is not needed unless there is a major buzz or noise issue. Can you share your experience with Humbuster cables---are you using FAS factory made humbuster cables or did you make your own? Were you having noise issues and then used Humbuster cables. Can you share your stereo rig equipment and share how you are using/creating stereo presets. Do you typically find stereo presets you like and then tweak them or do you start from scratch. I really appreciate your sharing, advice, recommendations.
Humbuster cables are best used when connecting to unbalanced sources like real amps. I don’t know about the AF3.
 
you'll hardly pick up any noise on a distance that short that would be cured by Humbuster cables (assuming your PS sits in the same rack connected to the same power line).
 
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