Question about stereo vs mono effects live

H

Hansen

Experienced
I run my AX8 presets with stereo cabs and most effects in stereo. I play in a band with two guitarists and we do not have a permanent sound guy. So I guess most sound technicians just pan one guitars to each side in the FOH. Could that cause any trouble for my stereo effects and stereo cabs or will they automatically turn into mono anyway?
 
Most venues don't run stereo. Its problematic because the folks in front of the left speakers hear one thing, and the folks on the right hear something else. Unless your right in the middle stereo effects don't work well live, as such, mono

Unless your using things like ping-pong delay, just pick either the right or left output and run it to FOH by itself. Solves any issues with phasing issues from summing to mono, panning problems, etc. and your audience will all be hearing the same performance regardless of where they are in the venue
 
Are you saying that I should run with one XLR to the FOH instead of two, and then everything would automatically turn into mono?

But I run stereo cabs on my distorted presets. If I run in mono, wont that affect the sound of the presets and only one cab will be active?
 
Yes, you'll only have half of your stereo effect, but if the venue's PA system is mono, which most are, the same signal is going to come out of all the speakers.

You could do stereo cabs still, panned center, so you get the blend of two cabinets, but you'd need to change your presets for live use, or make live and recording versions. I personally don't think its worth the hassle of doing that, and just use one output, "center" panned, to FOH, regardless of if its a stereo or mono PA system. Stereo effects just don't translate live so its not worth the hassle IMO to do anything more than just run one output, and then when I'm at home playing with my stereo monitors, recording etc, I use my same patches with optimal stereo effect
 
lqdsnddist said:
Yes, you'll only have half of your stereo effect, but if the venue's PA system is mono, which most are, the same signal is going to come out of all the speakers.

You could do stereo cabs still, panned center, so you get the blend of two cabinets, but you'd need to change your presets for live use, or make live and recording versions. I personally don't think its worth the hassle of doing that, and just use one output, "center" panned, to FOH, regardless of if its a stereo or mono PA system. Stereo effects just don't translate live so its not worth the hassle IMO to do anything more than just run one output, and then when I'm at home playing with my stereo monitors, recording etc, I use my same patches with optimal stereo effect
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With regards to the delays, etc I could just use mono delays live. That would be ok.

But I am not really sure what to do with the stereo cab in my distorted preset. I have two cabs, but they are both panned to center. So if I run mono, will I still get the combined sound of those two cabs or only one of them?
 
Hansen said:
With regards to the delays, etc I could just use mono delays live. That would be ok.

But I am not really sure what to do with the stereo cab in my distorted preset. I have two cabs, but they are both panned to center. So if I run mono, will I still get the combined sound of those two cabs or only one of them?
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Two cabs panned to center is already mono.
 
You will lose one half of your stereo effects if they're set to -100 left and 100 right. You could combat this by setting them -50 left and 50 right. This will give you a slight stereo image but not lose as much mono. The other option, one I've employed, its having duplicate presets in both stereo and mono. I then select the appropriate bank(s) for the setup if I'm unable to make arrangements ahead of time.

One thing that helps is contacting the venue/sound engineer a few days before the gig and let them know what your band's channel requirements are. We've done that with large or small gigs, even surprise same-day gigs, and it has been well worth the time it takes to reach out. It's much better than surprising the engineer with a stereo guitar rig at setup. Sound engineers seem to appreciate this and taking this step shows you're more serious about what you do and they will often be more apt to work with you a bit more.
 
I guess it is best to just run mono live. If I just connect with one XLR it will automatically turn into mono and I will not have to remember to change my output 1 from stereo to mono, since I use stereo at home?
 
Hansen said:
I guess it is best to just run mono live. If I just connect with one XLR it will automatically turn into mono and I will not have to remember to change my output 1 from stereo to mono, since I use stereo at home?
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If you use stereo presets at home, and you only connect one side to FOH, you only be connecting one half of your stereo signal. Yes, it will be mono...but you will not get anything that's different on the other channel of your usual stereo signal.


From your friend the wiki:
Mono and stereo output

The information on this page supplements the official manuals.

Contents
[1 Mono or stereo
Monostereo.png


Mono or stereo
Effects sound gloriously in stereo. However, when it comes to FOH sound, stereo separation may not translate very well to a live audience. People seldom are in the right spot to hear both sides equally well. Discussion.

Setting output to stereo
To get sound in stereo:

  • the preset must contain at least one stereo effect, and
  • the signal is not summed to mono before entering the output section, and
  • the device must be set to stereo output in the I/O menu, and
  • Left/Right outputs must both be connected to a stereo audio system.
When connecting the left and right outputs of the AX8 or Axe-Fx to a mixer, make sure that the two channel strips are hard-panned to the left and right.

Setting output to mono
To get mono sound:

  • sum the signal on the grid to mono
OR

  • set Output Mode in the I/O menu to one of the mono settings: "Sum L+R" or "Copy L>R"
OR

  • connect only the left or right output to the amplification system or mixer.
"Sum L+R" means that the left and right signal are mixed together. Be aware that this may cause phase cancellation.

"Copy L>R" means that the left side signal is copied to the right side (the original right signal is gone). This will defeat effects such as Ping-Pong delay, which is is based on hard-panned signals.

Outputs 1 and 2 each can be configured separately.

More information: I/O connections and levels.
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Rex said:
If you use stereo presets at home, and you only connect one side to FOH, you only be connecting one half of your stereo signal. Yes, it will be mono...but you will not get anything that's different on the other channel of your usual stereo signal.
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I read that wiki, but I am still not 100% sure.. If I keep output at stereo (so I do not have to remember to swich it every time), use two cabs both panned to center in the cab block, connect with to XLRs and both is panned to one side in the FOH, I guess it will be mono with both cabs included? Not taking about stereo effects here, just the stereo cabs.
 
Hansen said:
I read that wiki, but I am still not 100% sure.. If I keep output at stereo (so I do not have to remember to swich it every time), use two cabs both panned to center in the cab block, connect with to XLRs and both is panned to one side in the FOH, I guess it will be mono with both cabs included? Not taking about stereo effects here, just the stereo cabs.
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If your cabs are panned to center, and you have no stereo effects, the the left and right channels will be the same, and you will send the same sound to FOH, whether you use left, right or both channels.
 
Rex said:
If your cabs are panned to center, and you have no stereo effects, the the left and right channels will be the same, and you will send the same sound to FOH, whether you use left, right or both channels.
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Thanks. I just checked the cab block now and it was panned -20 to each side. So if I would have run that with stereo output but only one XLR I guess I would have ended up hearing more of one of the cabs?
 
Hansen said:
Thanks. I just checked the cab block now and it was panned -20 to each side. So if I would have run that with stereo output but only one XLR I guess I would have ended up hearing more of one of the cabs?
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Yes.
 
Hansen said:
Thanks. I just checked the cab block now and it was panned -20 to each side. So if I would have run that with stereo output but only one XLR I guess I would have ended up hearing more of one of the cabs?
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Yes but you need to ask yourself if that is a bad thing? It might not be.

I run a Dual delay hard panned for lead tones. Left is a shorter delay, Right is longer. I run mono at my gigs by simply using one output, left or right. I don't change anything in setup menus.

I can decide at the gig if I want a shorter or longer delay that night by choosing the left or right output. That’s all I need to do. Nothing else.

You might do this by hard panning different cabs - dark vs bright maybe - and choosing the appropriate output side for the gig.

Sure there are other ways to accomplish this. But since I already had it setup, it just works for me. When I do run stereo, I have both delays (or cabs) and it sounds great too.
 
chris said:
Yes but you need to ask yourself if that is a bad thing? It might not be.
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I am going to make duplicate of my presets, one stereo and one mono version. However, for my distorted rhytm tone I have a combination of two cabs that I really like. For that to work when I run mono can I still keep output at stereo, use one XLR and just make sure both cabs are panned to the center?
 
Hansen said:
I am going to make duplicate of my presets, one stereo and one mono version. However, for my distorted rhytm tone I have a combination of two cabs that I really like. For that to work when I run mono can I still keep output at stereo, use one XLR and just make sure both cabs are panned to the center?
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Yes, if nothing else in the preset is stereo.
 
Sonofiam said:
The other option, one I've employed, its having duplicate presets in both stereo and mono.
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Not necessary, you can use the I/O option "Output modes" set to L+R SUM to output all patches in mono.

Having tried live stereo on several occasions (even a vertical stereo setup!) I'm firmly in the camp that live stereo is a bad idea. The only benefit I've found is self-gratification playing on stage and standing in the sweet spot :)
 
GM Arts said:
Not necessary, you can use the I/O option "Output modes" set to L+R SUM to output all patches in mono.
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That's what I do. But some of my stereo patches exhibit phasing issues when collapsed to mono. Food those, I create separate mono patches.
 
Yep, sum to mono is a big mistake IMO, because of the phase issues it can introduce, and things that sounded good in stereo don't typically translate well to mono, like a ping-pong delay anyways.
 
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