QC, ToneX and the future of Fractal

They all also have great sound quality. Line6, Kemper, Fractal, QC. I have owned them all, and all are great.

I’m mostly interested in UI, and I wish the QC had been complete or a lot closer to it at launch. For me (I guess I need to keep stating this is my opinion?) The QC UI is by far the best.
The best Ui on product is the Helix
Which Neural took the liberty of borrowing heavily from

Anyway my 2cents sound quality does matter most to me and I am happy that FAS feels the same
If sound quality is not as important to you perhaps you would not be someone that is happy with a Fractal
 
I think all the top modelers have comparable “sound quality” and all produce great tones.

I’m not sure why you guys think my opinion is so controversial.
 
I think all the top modelers have comparable “sound quality” and all produce great tones.

I’m not sure why you guys think my opinion is so controversial.
I agree they can all produce great tones. Is the accuracy/quality whatever term is better here, all the same? I don’t think so.
 
As a metal player I can say from experience the “accuracy” of amp modeling matters a lot less than for more vintage amps that rely heavily on power amp character. Plexi’s for example. I think the Fractal ones absolutely obliterate the competition.
 
I have grown to really like Fractal's current UI and can work pretty fast on it. Even prefer it to the editor for making effect and amp tweaks. (Managing presets is about the only thing I like better on the editor.)
 
imho there is no reason to exchange the sound quality, the effects quality and the amazing utilization/editing options (not just in sound but in functionality and control) that fractal gives you for any difference in size. in any case you will need to bring at least 2 pieces with you anywhere you go to play. the guitar and the amp/rig/pedal. unless you opt for something very small like an ampero or an amplifirebox or sth like that that you can drop in your guitar case/gigbag and thus carry only one "thing", you have to carry two bags. now if the difference in the 2nd one is 1-2kg that doesnt bother me at least that much. i carry my axe3 in a 4u rack and i have a voes mx6 to control it (which is small enough to fit in the gtr gigbag). 3 cables (2 midi and an xlr for getting power from the faslink) all bundled up in one sleeve and i'm done. occasionally i may bring an expression too. and i have maximum power and sound quality. all the other stuff out there seem to me as compromises. even the qc which is the closest 2nd place to FAS. at least the way the firmware is right now. if they add stuff and functionality mainly in the effects area and if they double their amps list to get them to half those of the FAS i might consider them a viable (probably 2nd or backup) option. until then i keep a mp-100 ampero for the times i really need to go extra light and i am never dissapointed either way
 
I think Fractal should jump into the profiling ring.

I personally hope that Fractal never wastes any resources doing the capture thing.
I had a Kemper once and realized really quick how it is a much better idea to have the world's best model of an amp than have a picture of one that sounds about 85% there and without the feel.
Somewhere in here Cliff posted his philosophy on the profile thing.

Basically, if you have a unit with the capabilities of a Fractal, then profiling is pointless/redundant. You can already dial in the tone and then have much more creative control over it. With FAS's approach you really have much more freedom vs the capture paradigm.

Here's a great analogy of modeling vs profiling from Greg Ferguson:
Yes, agreed. I think of a profiler, like the Kemper, as buying a photograph and wanting to turn it into a piece of art. It’s only going to be as good as the photograph you started with; as we say in programming, “garbage in, garbage out.”

A modeler is akin to buying a camera and wanting to create a piece of art:
  • A cheap camera, like a disposable, will limit the quality of the photograph but will be easy to use.
  • A medium-quality point and shoot camera can do more and can automate more and can be adjusted more but it still has limitations.
  • Fractal’s modelers are like pro-quality Nikon or Canon top-end cameras, with a great lens and controls that let you adjust almost everything. You can use great factory presets or dive in and adjust and do it all manually and the capability will never restrict you, only your imagination and your knowledge and expertise will limit you. They are daunting with a learning curve but not insurmountable.
 
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I think Fractal has a solid range, and I don't see them needing to fragment their base any more. You've got your tiny FM3 if you want it. While you say the FM9 is big, are you talking bedroom use? It seems to be pretty popular with actual performers, including national touring acts. I personally like the rack mount units. That it's the most powerful is just a bonus, but the lighter DSPs in the FM9 aren't holding anyone back. See above.

I will occasionally play with some of the other units out there by other manufacturers, but I've been sticking with the III since it came out. It's way more than I need.
 
I think Fractal has a solid range, and I don't see them needing to fragment their base any more. You've got your tiny FM3 if you want it. While you say the FM9 is big, are you talking bedroom use? It seems to be pretty popular with actual performers, including national touring acts. I personally like the rack mount units. That it's the most powerful is just a bonus, but the lighter DSPs in the FM9 aren't holding anyone back. See above.

I will occasionally play with some of the other units out there by other manufacturers, but I've been sticking with the III since it came out. It's way more than I need.
Even some touring pro acts use the FM3. They’re aware of what they need to do the job.
 
I’m going to throw this out there…I’d rather see more effects models than more amps.
One idea I think would be cool but I’m no programmer…the Edit…when you click on a block, say amp, you actually see the model with the controls on it. Not sure how you’d handle the deeper dives…don’t want to have to virtually solder in new bright caps!😂
Do a forum search for "skeuomorphic"...

That topic was beat to death already. It's not really the Fractal Paradigm.
 
Even some touring pro acts use the FM3. They’re aware of what they need to do the job.

If the FM3 had been out when I was buying, I might have gone that way, just to get my feet wet. It was a big plunge at the original price of the unit, and I went in blind. Having already tried a few of the competitors, Helix and computer based solutions, I already knew a lot of what I didn't want.
 
I think Fractal is good where they are at and don't need to follow the rest of the crowd so much. I noticed within ToneX when I was messing with it the 5150 block letter model I found was actually a capture the person did with a Axe FX III version of the amp. Then I found the Driftwood Purple Nightmare which was a capture from a KPA. So now they are capturing a modeler and a capture device. Odd times.

Either way, after messing with Tone X and then going back and playing the Fractal version of the amps makes me appreciate the Fractal stuff a whole lot. Although I could get by with pretty much any of the plug-ins or other stand alone modelers, I prefer the Axe FX III.

Life is short, play what you enjoy playing on.
 
I have an Axe FX II for many years.
Until now I have probably scratch just about 2% of the features of the beast, and it covers for sure A LOT more than my needs.
No problem at all with the editor.
(I play only at home , with a small rack and a dedicated laptop on it, plugged into studio monitors or a line 6 power engine 60 ; I control it with a voes MC10)
I am still amazed about this black box.
Because of that ,i will not consider replacing it until it breaks, even for an Axe FX III

I may surprised a lot here, but if needed, I may consider replacing it with something like a Line 6 Helix.
The UI and pedalboard form factor is pretty attractive, and the sound are probably very good too .
I got very good sound out of a pod HD500 I had in the past. I must admit that I regret having sold it (even if I don't need it anymore).
I am not in the fight between various modelers. It is possible to get great sounds of ANY modelers , VST platform, on the market. It just depends on who makes the preset, and how he has or not a deep knowledge of the modeler.

I really think we are very lucky to have all of this available
 
It's all relative, right? The browsers in amp modelers present a pretty low bar :). By that standard it's not half bad, especially for a v1. It needs some obvious enhancements, but you can search/sort/filter tonenet and you have even more options for your local tone models. It does make one reflect on how the Axe-Edit picker and browser could certainly stand some improvement.
The problem with ToneX is discoverability. Often it's impossible to discern two tone models of the same amp because the only differentiator between them is the silly name and the extended info gives you nothing more. So you have to try them one by one using the loop function or a DI track.

By comparison it's not that hard to pick an amp or cab model from Fractal purely by name because they do have something descriptive to help you. "Black Angus" vs "Thunder Luck" is not very useful, "Plexi 100 High" and "Plexi 50 Jumped" are.

The ToneX app doesn't even sort things in a sensible way. Multi-column sort is very easy to do so even if you have e.g sorting by amp name, then you would still sort the results within that order by character (all cleans followed by all drives) and alphabetic name. ToneX does not do this so you have a weird jumble that is neither alphabetic or ordered by character.

So it fails at some very fundamental things for a tool that is built around a need for managing a lot of data. Kemper Rig Manager does a far better job at this so all they had to do was look at what the competition was doing.

I do totally agree that Axe-Edit could use a lot of improvement to its browsers. Filters, folders, tags etc would all be helpful even if they are only accessible from Axe-Edit.
 
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The QC UI is by far the best.
For me it's the worst. They're sooooo reliant on the touchscreen that basic operations become very cludgy, and the rotary encoders on top of the footswitches all feel quite different from one another; different amounts of wobble, different indentations, different ballistics.. that's quite hard to get fluid with the unit.

I just bought a Waldorf Iridium synth, now THAT is the way to use a touchscreen in a MI product. IMHO, YMMV, m2p, etc etc etc....
 
ToneX, the app, is just a turd.
You said this on the other place, and I didn't really get it then either tbh! I find it very intuitive to use, the only thing I would like is a batch way to remove all of the IK captures/profiles, and only have my own in there. But generally I think it's really well thought out, and very beautiful to look at.
 
Is it just me who finds it rather scary to assume captures/profiles exactly behave the same as the real amplifier? One of the reasons is the effect of SIC. Most of the time, the users don't know if X-Load LB-2 or other equipment with the right impedance curve is used as the load box for capturing.
 
For me it's the worst. They're sooooo reliant on the touchscreen that basic operations become very cludgy, and the rotary encoders on top of the footswitches all feel quite different from one another; different amounts of wobble, different indentations, different ballistics.. that's quite hard to get fluid with the unit.

I just bought a Waldorf Iridium synth, now THAT is the way to use a touchscreen in a MI product. IMHO, YMMV, m2p, etc etc etc....
The one I had was a pleasure to use. For me the knob/switches had the best feel I've had on a modeler with just the right ballistics to make them feel natural to turn. Fx block editing was very easy to do, just managing captures and presets was crap.

That Waldorf looks really cool, though I don't really love the "big knob surrounded by buttons" that Fractal also does. The encoder values are a bit small looking for my liking but probably work fine in reality, otherwise lots of nice practical touches there like showing saved preset value etc. I think there's a lot happening in synth user interfaces that guitar modeler makers should look at to offer better on the fly control.

I love how easy my ASM Hydrasynth Explorer is to use where it's small LCD screen with four knobs surrounding it works generally better than doing anything on my Axe-Fx 3 because the Hydrasynth knob and button placement is better so it's much faster to change between sets of parameters, toggle things on/off and so on.

You said this on the other place, and I didn't really get it then either tbh! I find it very intuitive to use, the only thing I would like is a batch way to remove all of the IK captures/profiles, and only have my own in there. But generally I think it's really well thought out, and very beautiful to look at.
Then we will just have to agree to disagree. I found it frustrating when it doesn't present info I would need to make educated decisions on what to pick and puts a lot of stuff in non-obvious places.

Whoever made the UI is just reinventing wheels. Like why does the way sorting works change if you go to Tone.net where it's now a dropdown on the left instead of just clicking the column, with far less options too? Why is expand list button a column header? User interface design uses tried and true conventions for good reason and you start breaking them when you know you can do better. ToneX developers clearly don't.

The pretty graphics for amps are just fluff so you might as well just have a generic amp graphic when all of them have the same controls. I don't feel it adds anything to the user experience but it does take a lot of screen space so you cannot have a larger list of models open with amp controls.

Overall using the Tone.net stuff is just slow as it will constantly interrupt you with a loading screen which is another bad design. Scroll too far? Loading screen. Select any model? Loading screen.

Then you have some real practical issues like not being able to lock the cab sim so you can switch between amp only models without blowing your ears off in between.
 
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