POLL: The most accurate PAF replica...

[skolacki]

Why are there no authoritative discussions on humbuckers with different types of magnets in one housing that are interesting in my opinion? https://3rdpower.com/magfrag-humbuckers/ I haven’t found any discussions on the Internet about their advantages and disadvantages. According to the description, they are universal for all PAF styles

That’s interesting and makes sense. Gimmick? Maybe, but it seems like a good idea. Have any other manufacturers tried this? 1st I’ve heard of it.

 

[SpudMan]

Not quite on topic, but I wanted to post about this... I recently put a set of the new Gibson Firebird pickups in my Firebird, took it to a jam last night, and I can't begin to describe how happy I am with the results. I knew it sounded good to me, but damn... it sounds like a Firebird, but it's got all of the qualities of the PAF-type humbuckers I'm looking for. It's clear, balanced, got a killer chime in the middle position, and just sounds "old." There's enough high to cut through anything, which is did very well, but is nowhere near harsh or brittle or sharp or any of the other things that I don't like about bright pickups. It just exceeded every expectation I had and took a guitar I've always liked but was never happy with the sound and turned it into a monster! While these certainly sound like what I expect a Firebird to sound like, they have all the qualities of the Gibson MHS pickups that I've been raving about. I don't want to drop a set into one of my humbucker guitars, that's what I've got the Firebird for, but if I can find a humbucker, that sounds like a humbucker (not a Firebird) and has all of these qualities, I'll be extremely happy!

My points here are that these are not "high dollar" pickups and that Gibson really seems to have upped their game. The Custombuckers seem to have a better reputation than the Burstbuckers (I love them both), which I've heard (no idea if this is true) that Ron Ellis was at least partly involved in their design (around 2013, if what I've heard is even remotely true). If Jared Brandon had anything to do with these new Firebird pups, I'll be very interested in what else they come out with. I'll admit, this makes me more than a little curious what those 1959 Collector's Edition pups really sound like.

@SpudMan - had to postpone comparing my R0 with the new LP Standard until Wednesday but will definitely let you know how the Custombuckers compare to the current Burstbuckers as soon as I can.

Never thought about a Firebird. I might look into one. I like variety in guitars.

No worries on the delay in your trip to the store. I am not in a rush. Better to think things through carefully,.

 

[Churchhill]

Why are there no authoritative discussions on humbuckers with different types of magnets in one housing that are interesting in my opinion? https://3rdpower.com/magfrag-humbuckers/ I haven’t found any discussions on the Internet about their advantages and disadvantages. According to the description, they are universal for all PAF styles

Well, I can tell you why I'm not looking at those, which is simply my choice and not a reflection on those pickups.

I do think that this is an innovative approach and one that has been used for years in Strat and Tele pickups (probably others). My guess is that, because the magnet is a separate bar in the bottom of most humbuckers, it adds to the cost of manufacturing them, which cuts into profits. Using different magnets in pickups where the poles themselves are the magnets is a lot easier (and cheaper) to implement.

I do think this a great approach when the sound is almost there but maybe a little smoother treble on the high strings and a little tighter bass on the lows would fit someone's sound even better than the pickup would using a single magnet type. I think 3rd Power should be applauded for flying in the face of convention! If I was looking for a modern approach, I would definitely give these a chance.

There are a number of videos on YT demonstrating these pickups, too.

 

[Churchhill]

Never thought about a Firebird. I might look into one. I like variety in guitars.

No worries on the delay in your trip to the store. I am not in a rush. Better to think things through carefully,.

I've loved Firebirds ever since I saw Johnny Winter playing one so long ago I can't remember when. This one is now easily in my top three sounding guitars along with my R0 and ES-345. It's going to be getting a LOT of play time!!

They can be top heavy, especially the original style tuners. More recent examples have used Steinberger tuners that are supposed to be lighter weight and help the balance, but I haven't tried any to say whether that's true or not. Mine is actually pretty well balanced and with a good strap that doesn't slip around much, it's never been a problem for me.

They're also a little different because the body shape makes the bridge sit a little closer to the neck-side when playing sitting down (to a lesser extent when standing). It's more than a little like a Jazzmaster in that respect, but in my case, I just hold the neck up a little higher and it feels fine. Actually helps my reach a little, too, but it's definitely a different feel compared to a Les Paul or Explorer.

Designed by Ray Dietrich of automotive fame (Chrysler, etc.). Just a bit of trivia.

 

[SpudMan]

I've loved Firebirds ever since I saw Johnny Winter playing one so long ago I can't remember when. This one is now easily in my top three sounding guitars along with my R0 and ES-345. It's going to be getting a LOT of play time!!

They can be top heavy, especially the original style tuners. More recent examples have used Steinberger tuners that are supposed to be lighter weight and help the balance, but I haven't tried any to say whether that's true or not. Mine is actually pretty well balanced and with a good strap that doesn't slip around much, it's never been a problem for me.

They're also a little different because the body shape makes the bridge sit a little closer to the neck-side when playing sitting down (to a lesser extent when standing). It's more than a little like a Jazzmaster in that respect, but in my case, I just hold the neck up a little higher and it feels fine. Actually helps my reach a little, too, but it's definitely a different feel compared to a Les Paul or Explorer.

Designed by Ray Dietrich of automotive fame (Chrysler, etc.). Just a bit of trivia.

Sadly I looked at the cost and they seem to all be $5k or more! Sigh! That is above my budget at the moment. But as to the logistics, I basically always play standing up, so that isn't an issue.
On another note, I saw Johnny Winter (with Poco and Foghat) at the Philadelpha Spectrum, many, many moons ago. He had Rick Derringer with him. It was the Johnny Winter And tour. Great show. I also love his song, Life is Hard. RIP Johnny!

 

[Churchhill]

That must've been a great show! RIP Johnny...

 

[Dave Merrill]

Sadly I looked at the cost and they seem to all be $5k or more! Sigh! That is above my budget at the moment. But as to the logistics, I basically always play standing up, so that isn't an issue.
On another note, I saw Johnny Winter (with Poco and Foghat) at the Philadelpha Spectrum, many, many moons ago. He had Rick Derringer with him. It was the Johnny Winter And tour. Great show. I also love his song, Life is Hard. RIP Johnny!

Yeah saw those prices, ouch. There are Epiphone ones for less, including one well under a grand. I assume there are downsides to them, haven't played any of these

And yeah, RIP Johnny. The Progressive Blues Experiment album is way awesome, wore that one out.

 

[skolacki]

Bless Johnny Winter. Saw him in his later years. Small theatre. Excellent seats. His Musicman pointed straight at my skull. I’ve seen a few excessively loud shows. AC/DC at the LA Forum. Gary Moore in a small bar in Anaheim Ca. But Johnny Winter. Holy crap it was so loud. I jammed toilet paper into my ears since I didn’t have plugs. I think his hearing was pretty much gone by then along with his eyesight. I was super impressed that his intonation on slide was so good, and he never even looked to see what he was doing because he knew exactly where he was at. Not sure if he could see his hands by then anyhow.

And back on track, what’s the difference between mini buckers like the LP Deluxe and Firebird pickups?

 

[SpudMan]

I have a huge aversion to buying anything from China, especially guitars, but given the high cost of the Gibson Firebird, I am wondering if anyone has any experience with the Epiphone Firebirds. It seems the really inexpensive on has humbuckers, so I wouldn't be able to switch them out for Firebird pickups as they are mini humbuckers. I would do a Warmoth build and buy the Gibson Firebird pickups as they are available for sale from Gibson, but Warmoth doesn't seem to have a body similar to a Firebird as they are really geared towards Fender models.
Never thought about the Firebird, but I kind of like the looks of it.
Or, does anyone know of any other manufacturers that make Firebird clones that I could buy and swap out pickups for the Gibson's?

 

[Budda]

I have a huge aversion to buying anything from China, especially guitars, but given the high cost of the Gibson Firebird, I am wondering if anyone has any experience with the Epiphone Firebirds. It seems the really inexpensive on has humbuckers, so I wouldn't be able to switch them out for Firebird pickups as they are mini humbuckers. I would do a Warmoth build and buy the Gibson Firebird pickups as they are available for sale from Gibson, but Warmoth doesn't seem to have a body similar to a Firebird as they are really geared towards Fender models.
Never thought about the Firebird, but I kind of like the looks of it.
Or, does anyone know of any other manufacturers that make Firebird clones that I could buy and swap out pickups for the Gibson's?

Try a Kauer? Reasonably priced used (and new?)

 

[SpudMan]

Try a Kauer? Reasonably priced used (and new?)

They do look quite nice. Thanks!

 

[Dave Merrill]

Try a Kauer? Reasonably priced used (and new?)

The more Firebird-y ones aren't all that inexpensive, by my standards at least.

 

[SpudMan]

The more Firebird-y ones aren't all that inexpensive, by my standards at least.

The more Firebird-y ones aren't all that inexpensive, by my standards at least.

Definitely, they look nice but looks like the minimum is still closer to $5k. And although Lollar pickups are definitely good, based on Churchill's comments above, I would prefer the Gibson Firebird pickups. Not inexpensive either, but there is a Gibson Firebird for $4,499 that looks nice. I would prefer the more original body orientation to the non-reverse, otherise it seems nice and authentic. I wish I could get past the Epiphone thing, but .... Also, Epiphones are getting more and more expensive, so no great bargain anymore. And the "Handcrafted in China" label on the headstock, well ...

 

[Budda]

Guarantee a used Kauer or Gibson is closer to 2k usd, grab that

 

[Churchhill]

Bless Johnny Winter. Saw him in his later years. Small theatre. Excellent seats. His Musicman pointed straight at my skull. I’ve seen a few excessively loud shows. AC/DC at the LA Forum. Gary Moore in a small bar in Anaheim Ca. But Johnny Winter. Holy crap it was so loud. I jammed toilet paper into my ears since I didn’t have plugs. I think his hearing was pretty much gone by then along with his eyesight. I was super impressed that his intonation on slide was so good, and he never even looked to see what he was doing because he knew exactly where he was at. Not sure if he could see his hands by then anyhow.

And back on track, what’s the difference between mini buckers like the LP Deluxe and Firebird pickups?

It's my understanding that mini-humbuckers are constructed the same as full-size humbuckers, two coils with slug/screw polepieces conducting from a single bar magnet below and between the coils. Firebird pickups also use two coils, but they use two bar magnets that are inserted into the center of the coils with no magnet underneath. So, they're similar to Fender pickups in that the magnets are the polepieces, similar to humbuckers because they use two coils wired in opposite directions, and unique because they use non-adjustable bars instead of six pole pieces under each string. Like most pickups that use magnets for polepieces, they are brighter and thinner than their counterparts with the magnets under the coils.

Not many pickups that are advertised as "Firebirds" are actually Firebirds. The stock Gibson pickups that came in mine weren't... SMH... overwound to 16k+, probably with 44 awg, and ceramic magnets. They weren't that good unless you're into hard-rock/metal. Nothing wrong with that, I am myself, but that's not what I think of when I think of Firebirds (and I have other guitars for that).

 

[Churchhill]

Definitely, they look nice but looks like the minimum is still closer to $5k. And although Lollar pickups are definitely good, based on Churchill's comments above, I would prefer the Gibson Firebird pickups. Not inexpensive either, but there is a Gibson Firebird for $4,499 that looks nice. I would prefer the more original body orientation to the non-reverse, otherise it seems nice and authentic. I wish I could get past the Epiphone thing, but .... Also, Epiphones are getting more and more expensive, so no great bargain anymore. And the "Handcrafted in China" label on the headstock, well ...

It's too bad that Gibson dropped them from their standard line-up a few years ago. Maybe they'll bring them back, but who knows. If I were looking for one and didn't want to pay Custom Shop prices, I'd consider used. As @Budda and @Dave Merrill mentioned, there are other options, but they're just not as common as Strats, LPs, and the like.

 

[skolacki]

It's my understanding that mini-humbuckers are constructed the same as full-size humbuckers, two coils with slug/screw polepieces conducting from a single bar magnet below and between the coils. Firebird pickups also use two coils, but they use two bar magnets that are inserted into the center of the coils with no magnet underneath. So, they're similar to Fender pickups in that the magnets are the polepieces, similar to humbuckers because they use two coils wired in opposite directions, and unique because they use non-adjustable bars instead of six pole pieces under each string. Like most pickups that use magnets for polepieces, they are brighter and thinner than their counterparts with the magnets under the coils.

Not many pickups that are advertised as "Firebirds" are actually Firebirds. The stock Gibson pickups that came in mine weren't... SMH... overwound to 16k+, probably with 44 awg, and ceramic magnets. They weren't that good unless you're into hard-rock/metal. Nothing wrong with that, I am myself, but that's not what I think of when I think of Firebirds (and I have other guitars for that).

I started looking into this, not deeply but had a quick look. Interesting reading so far. A lot of variations over the years and some where the 2 coils were inserted on their sides under the cover. I’ve never had a mini bucker or Firebird pickup. Maybe one of these days. I saw some recent posts on Firebird type pickups from @Joe Bfstplk about pickups he installed in a guitar. Story for another thread though.

 

[Churchhill]

I started looking into this, not deeply but had a quick look. Interesting reading so far. A lot of variations over the years and some where the 2 coils were inserted on their sides under the cover. I’ve never had a mini bucker or Firebird pickup. Maybe one of these days. I saw some recent posts on Firebird type pickups from @Joe Bfstplk about pickups he installed in a guitar. Story for another thread though.

Yeah, I saw that thread from @Joe Bfstplk , that was a good thread, and maybe not quite the original topic here, but it's good with me... I'm loving my Firebird at the moment! Sounded like Joe really enjoyed these types of pickups, too.

I've heard of those pickups with the coils mounted sideways... Hmmm... never came across one, but definitely interesting. No idea what they sound like.

 

[skolacki]

Yeah, I saw that thread from @Joe Bfstplk , that was a good thread, and maybe not quite the original topic here, but it's good with me... I'm loving my Firebird at the moment! Sounded like Joe really enjoyed these types of pickups, too.

I've heard of those pickups with the coils mounted sideways... Hmmm... never came across one, but definitely interesting. No idea what they sound like.

From my brief research, the consensus is that these pickups are bright. Some info here:

https://www.heliotricity.com/firebird-pickups/

 

[pima1234]

I voted for the Throbak. But, even though they weren't a specific option, because I love the Peter Green set in my custom Forshage Orion. I can't comment specifically on whether or not they are the most authentic. That varies from guitar to guitar (and by player). Regardless, the PGs are worth every penny.