POLL: The most accurate PAF replica...

[Budda]

Just wondering, and apologies if you have mentioned this elsewhere, but what type of music do you play? I see several Gibson pickups listed here, and BTW, being uninformed, I was wondering what a Gibson MHS pickups is. Of the Gibson pickups, which would you say is the "warmest"? You have quite an impressive collection of guitars. I just wish I had not sold my Gold Top LP (either late 60's or early 70's), honestly I can't recall as I sold it probably almost 50 years ago. I bought it off of the classified ads from a woman who was selling her away at college son's guitar. I bet he was pissed! I really wish I could get a LP, rather than build one at this time, but I am scared of the quality issues many here have mentioned, and I haven't seen a good deal on a used one. The one for sale on the site here in Montana looks really nice but I am not near there, and I think it is priced a bit too high.

What qc issues are scaring you away?

Im active on 4 forums, one of which is mylespaul and new from factory qc issues seem incredibly few and far between since i have joined.

 

[SpudMan]

What qc issues are scaring you away?

Im active on 4 forums, one of which is mylespaul and new from factory qc issues seem incredibly few and far between since i have joined.

Can't point to a specific one. I do wish the Standards had more satin finish than glossy, but ... Other than the shiny finish, do you think the Burstbucker pickups on the new LP 50's Standards are in the ballpark of the ones being discussed in this thread? Or, are the Custombucker Alnico 3's on the LP Custom Shop Reissues much "better"? I prefer to spend less, but really do like the appearance of the reissues a lot more than the glossy finish.

 

[Budda]

Can't point to a specific one. I do wish the Standards had more satin finish than glossy, but ... Other than the shiny finish, do you think the Burstbucker pickups on the new LP 50's Standards are in the ballpark of the ones being discussed in this thread? Or, are the Custombucker Alnico 3's on the LP Custom Shop Reissues much "better"? I prefer to spend less, but really do like the appearance of the reissues a lot more than the glossy finish.

1. They make a les paul standard faded, and they are almost a grand less CDN than their gloss counterparts. Haven't tried one, would like to.

2. Yes I feel the burstbucker 1/2 set compare well with the other PAF offerings. Mine are back in my goldtop after having the vineham royals in there for a bit. The Custombuckers will be different, I wouldnt say better. A2 is going to have a touch more compression and output, but the difference is greatly diminished if you play with other instruments, use say "dimed plexi" levels of gain or anything like that.

I would look for a current faded 50's IMO.

 

[SpudMan]

1. They make a les paul standard faded, and they are almost a grand less CDN than their gloss counterparts. Haven't tried one, would like to.

2. Yes I feel the burstbucker 1/2 set compare well with the other PAF offerings. Mine are back in my goldtop after having the vineham royals in there for a bit. The Custombuckers will be different, I wouldnt say better. A2 is going to have a touch more compression and output, but the difference is greatly diminished if you play with other instruments, use say "dimed plexi" levels of gain or anything like that.

I would look for a current faded 50's IMO.

Thanks, I will look into that.

 

[Churchhill]

I'd certainly give this project a listen, but that's an awful lot of probably subtley different options to sort through. Not sure a winner would be clear, but that's a valid outcome too I guess. Not thinking they wouldn't sound different, just that it'd be hard to know what's "better", for what result, under what circumstances.

Yeah, I'm not sure "better" is really applicable here, different sure, but better is so subjective in this case. I expect that I will have a preference, which may change on a daily basis knowing me, but they're all good sounding, well-made pickups, and all within the same tonal ballpark. Different is good, because that's really what I'm wanting (outside being curious how much is the sum of the parts vs just the basic recipe).

What I'm thinking is that I pare that list down to just the handful that people may be familiar with, Custombucker, Burstbucker, maybe one or two more, in addition to the new ones, of course.

 

[Churchhill]

I have my own preset that i use to demo everything with, easy enough to roll your own. Fender clean, fender clean plus drive, marshall overdrive, boosted marshall. g-d-c chord progression for cleaner tones and a 3-chord progression with power chords for the higher gain tones. Basic, repeatable pentatonic lick for any lead showcase.

Just dont update firmware or save preset changes til the experiment is done unless you arent that worried about 1:1 clips haha.

I would separate your list into 3 or more groups. Sets 1-4, bkp, gibson hollowbody models, antiquity and R0 can be shorter and by themselves (unless you roll pickups in those guitars). Short and sweet is the goal.

Yeah, I want to make sure that everything in the recording chain is as close as possible, same preset, same firmware, same cable, same pick, same riffs. I was thinking about using a factory preset in case anyone else wanted to try to duplicate the test with their own guitars and pickups. Figured that would be easy, but of course, I could just attach the preset(s) that I use, too. Nothing fancy, just guitar to amp block to IR. No effects, other than maybe a boost. Don't want anything to get in the way of what I suspect will be somewhat subtle differences.

I may drop the BKPs out, just because there are plenty of demos of them. It might make a good comparison, though, because they're not that uncommon, either. Would very likely break that into a separate clip, if I do include them. I'll probably record a bit of everything, then mix and match to make it bearable. I'm not a fan of demos that go on forever, just need enough to get the idea, but no more than about 30 seconds per pickup.

Short and sweet, definitely! Big fan of the KISS principle.

 

[Budda]

@Churchhill record DI’s of everything, people can then run those through their presets.

 

[Churchhill]

Just wondering, and apologies if you have mentioned this elsewhere, but what type of music do you play? I see several Gibson pickups listed here, and BTW, being uninformed, I was wondering what a Gibson MHS pickups is. Of the Gibson pickups, which would you say is the "warmest"? You have quite an impressive collection of guitars. I just wish I had not sold my Gold Top LP (either late 60's or early 70's), honestly I can't recall as I sold it probably almost 50 years ago. I bought it off of the classified ads from a woman who was selling her away at college son's guitar. I bet he was pissed! I really wish I could get a LP, rather than build one at this time, but I am scared of the quality issues many here have mentioned, and I haven't seen a good deal on a used one. The one for sale on the site here in Montana looks really nice but I am not near there, and I think it is priced a bit too high.

Well, a little bit of a lot of things. Mostly what I'd call blues and classic rock. Started playing in '85, still enjoy some metal, but not my main thing, either. Floyd, Zeppelin, AC/DC, Sabbath, stuff like that. I have some other guitars that I use for heavier things, though.

The MHS pickups (Memphis Historic Spec) were made while the Gibson Memphis factory was in operation. I don't believe they were ever available aftermarket, but I may be mistaken. There were two series, the first (what I have) is based on "early PAFs" (according to Gibson) and use A2 in the bridge and A3 in the neck. Mine measure 7.8k and 7.3k, plain enamel 42 awg. The second series is based on later patent number pickups, short A5s, and 42 awg poly. Mine came in my ES-345 and are definitely staying. They are some of the best PAFs I've ever heard.

I'd say the MHS are the warmest Gibson pickups I have (leaving out 498s, which are a different beast altogether). They are warm, smooth, woody, and have a great bite without ever getting close to harsh. Incredible definition and string separation, too. Not sure how to describe this, but they sound "old" in a way that nothing else I have tried does.

Comparatively, the Custombuckers are really nice, too. They have a little less mid and a tighter, rounder bass. They are bright, maybe the brightest of the Gibson pickups, but are still very smooth and not at all harsh. They are punchy, kind of like a big Fender or Hiwatt vs a Marshall, but have this wonderful "clack" (for lack of a better word) to them. They are very clear sounding under gain.

My second favorite of the Gibsons are the Burstbuckers. Mine are from 2003 and I've heard rumors that they may have changed some since then, not sure how they compare to current versions. These are warm, smooth, and powerful. They're A2, but not like any other A2 I've heard. Not overly mid-focused, but definitely strong mids that still sound open. Bass isn't mushy at all, or at least not like a lot of A2s can be. If I was going to play heavier stuff, this would be the set I'd use. They sound amazing under '80s style gain.

I understand your concerns about quality issues, I've seen a lot of chatter about that. But, what I can tell you is that I haven't experienced any. When I bought my R0 (new) last year, I play about 20 of them. They were all great guitars, all had "that" sound, and all felt incredible. It really came down to the top I liked best, which was not a bad thing, but I did not expect them to be that consistent at all. While I haven't played a ton of production Gibsons, the ones I have were all good guitars without the quality issues others have talked about. While I'm not doubting that some exist, I haven't seen them, maybe I'm lucky, IDK. The last new Gibson I bought (before the R0) was a 2019 SG Jr. It needed a little time to settle in, like they all do, but once it did, it's become one of my favorites. I haven't found any problems with it, even the stock pickup sounds good. But, you're right to be weary... best advice is to play before buying if at all possible and shop around. Some amazing discounts are definitely available on new and the used market seems to be correcting itself after the pandemic (finally).

And yeah, I bet that mother's son was NOT happy... Ouch!!

 

[Churchhill]

Not trying to stir up trouble, but if it's going to change your life, I wouldn't worry about "a bit too high"

This ^^^^ I could not agree more!!! Somethings, life-changing things, are just worth it. I waited 20 years to get my R0 and it was worth every penny (of course, now I want another one, but, well...)

 

[Churchhill]

@Churchhill record DI’s of everything, people can then run those through their presets.

Yep, was already planning on doing that anyway, mostly so I could run through different amps and see what differences might be lurking. Certainly will make those available for anyone who wants them.

 

[SpudMan]

Well, a little bit of a lot of things. Mostly what I'd call blues and classic rock. Started playing in '85, still enjoy some metal, but not my main thing, either. Floyd, Zeppelin, AC/DC, Sabbath, stuff like that. I have some other guitars that I use for heavier things, though.

The MHS pickups (Memphis Historic Spec) were made while the Gibson Memphis factory was in operation. I don't believe they were ever available aftermarket, but I may be mistaken. There were two series, the first (what I have) is based on "early PAFs" (according to Gibson) and use A2 in the bridge and A3 in the neck. Mine measure 7.8k and 7.3k, plain enamel 42 awg. The second series is based on later patent number pickups, short A5s, and 42 awg poly. Mine came in my ES-345 and are definitely staying. They are some of the best PAFs I've ever heard.

I'd say the MHS are the warmest Gibson pickups I have (leaving out 498s, which are a different beast altogether). They are warm, smooth, woody, and have a great bite without ever getting close to harsh. Incredible definition and string separation, too. Not sure how to describe this, but they sound "old" in a way that nothing else I have tried does.

Comparatively, the Custombuckers are really nice, too. They have a little less mid and a tighter, rounder bass. They are bright, maybe the brightest of the Gibson pickups, but are still very smooth and not at all harsh. They are punchy, kind of like a big Fender or Hiwatt vs a Marshall, but have this wonderful "clack" (for lack of a better word) to them. They are very clear sounding under gain.

My second favorite of the Gibsons are the Burstbuckers. Mine are from 2003 and I've heard rumors that they may have changed some since then, not sure how they compare to current versions. These are warm, smooth, and powerful. They're A2, but not like any other A2 I've heard. Not overly mid-focused, but definitely strong mids that still sound open. Bass isn't mushy at all, or at least not like a lot of A2s can be. If I was going to play heavier stuff, this would be the set I'd use. They sound amazing under '80s style gain.

I understand your concerns about quality issues, I've seen a lot of chatter about that. But, what I can tell you is that I haven't experienced any. When I bought my R0 (new) last year, I play about 20 of them. They were all great guitars, all had "that" sound, and all felt incredible. It really came down to the top I liked best, which was not a bad thing, but I did not expect them to be that consistent at all. While I haven't played a ton of production Gibsons, the ones I have were all good guitars without the quality issues others have talked about. While I'm not doubting that some exist, I haven't seen them, maybe I'm lucky, IDK. The last new Gibson I bought (before the R0) was a 2019 SG Jr. It needed a little time to settle in, like they all do, but once it did, it's become one of my favorites. I haven't found any problems with it, even the stock pickup sounds good. But, you're right to be weary... best advice is to play before buying if at all possible and shop around. Some amazing discounts are definitely available on new and the used market seems to be correcting itself after the pandemic (finally).

And yeah, I bet that mother's son was NOT happy... Ouch!!

That mothers son was likely not as unhappy as I am now for selling it. And to add insult to injury I traded it for a late 50's (I think 1959) Fender Telecaster that I also sold in my foolish youth. Back then I was more interested in touring the country on my motorcycle, than guitar. Sigh!
Thanks for the pickup info. I looked into the Faded 50's that Budda suggested, but they only seem to come in Honey Burst, and every picture I see of them looks different. In general, I don't like the look. Overall I prefer the $4,999, 1957 reissue. Not sure my budget can handle it though. Next to that I prefer the Standard 50's Goldtop, but I don't care for the gloss finish. But I really do wish I could recreate my old Goldtop. Nostalgia I guess.
Thanks also for the info on quality. As to playing before buying, it just seems as though the local shops don't stock the unfer $3k LP's, only $5k and up.

 

[Churchhill]

Can't point to a specific one. I do wish the Standards had more satin finish than glossy, but ... Other than the shiny finish, do you think the Burstbucker pickups on the new LP 50's Standards are in the ballpark of the ones being discussed in this thread? Or, are the Custombucker Alnico 3's on the LP Custom Shop Reissues much "better"? I prefer to spend less, but really do like the appearance of the reissues a lot more than the glossy finish.

I'll let you know tomorrow. I'm going to go play a new LP Standard 50's with Burstbuckers and I can take my R0 along to compare. If the Burstbuckers are anything like the ones I have, I actually prefer them just a hair more than the Custombuckers (just my taste).

 

[SpudMan]

I'll let you know tomorrow. I'm going to go play a new LP Standard 50's with Burstbuckers and I can take my R0 along to compare. If the Burstbuckers are anything like the ones I have, I actually prefer them just a hair more than the Custombuckers (just my taste).

That would be much appreciated, thanks! Just curious, do you have a color preference? I prefer Goldtop, but Ebony looks nice also. I am full up on burst finishes, and don't like the pastel colors, or the lemon color. As to in stock, the local store has tons of Lemon LP's. Looks like nobody likes that color. I can see why. My wife wonders why they make so many guitars in colors nobody wants. Normally colors of things don't matter to me, function is what matters. But for some reason, for a guitar, color is not just an aesthetic issue, it reslly feels like part of the function of the instrument. Another thing I can't explain, but it just feels that way to me.
When you sdasay R0, do you mean your 1960 Reissue?

 

[SpudMan]

This ^^^^ I could not agree more!!! Somethings, life-changing things, are just worth it. I waited 20 years to get my R0 and it was worth every penny (of course, now I want another one, but, well...)

Price wouldn't be the deciding factor, just that I am not in the sellers vacinity, and don't deal in Paypal.

 

[Churchhill]

That mothers son was likely not as unhappy as I am now for selling it. And to add insult to injury I traded it for a late 50's (I think 1959) Fender Telecaster that I also sold in my foolish youth. Back then I was more interested in touring the country on my motorcycle, than guitar. Sigh!
Thanks for the pickup info. I looked into the Faded 50's that Budda suggested, but they only seem to come in Honey Burst, and every picture I see of them looks different. In general, I don't like the look. Overall I prefer the $4,999, 1957 reissue. Not sure my budget can handle it though. Next to that I prefer the Standard 50's Goldtop, but I don't care for the gloss finish. But I really do wish I could recreate my old Goldtop. Nostalgia I guess.
Thanks also for the info on quality. As to playing before buying, it just seems as though the local shops don't stock the unfer $3k LP's, only $5k and up.

I'll mention that $5k is list on the '57 RI, but you can get a significant discount from some of the bigger local dealers. When I bought my R0, I traveled about 8 hours each way to go to a store in Wisconsin. I expected to pay list or close to it, but the price out the door was enough to pay for the entire trip, hotels and nice meals, and then some. I don't want to name names or numbers because I don't want to get anyone in trouble, but let's just say I'm sure you can find a new R7 for a good amount less than list price. I'm sure that any of those dealers (Wildwood, Dave's, Willcutt, Moore's, Eddie's, etc.) will work with you over the phone, too. They can't display discounts on the web due to Gibson's restrictions. I'm sure they'd be willing to do a video call or the like to demo it and I'm sure they'd work with you if you didn't like it.

And I know what you mean... there are more than a few things I've let go or passed on over the years that I still kick myself for, too.

 

[Churchhill]

That would be much appreciated, thanks! Just curious, do you have a color preference? I prefer Goldtop, but Ebony looks nice also. I am full up on burst finishes, and don't like the pastel colors, or the lemon color. As to in stock, the local store has tons of Lemon LP's. Looks like nobody likes that color. I can see why. My wife wonders why they make so many guitars in colors nobody wants. Normally colors of things don't matter to me, function is what matters. But for some reason, for a guitar, color is not just an aesthetic issue, it reslly feels like part of the function of the instrument. Another thing I can't explain, but it just feels that way to me.
When you sdasay R0, do you mean your 1960 Reissue?

Yeah, I've really got to question some of Gibson's color choices... that lemonburst or whatever they're calling it isn't anything like what I think of for that color (faded cherryburst where all the cherry is gone). I used to like their teaburst, but it's gotten a little dark for me. Typically, I actually like Customs better than Standards, but I love them both. Black, white, red (cherry and wine). I definitely know what you mean about the color being more than an aesthetic thing, too, and not just Gibsons. I've got a seafoam green Strat that is the happiest guitar I've ever played, almost onery but in a light-hearted sense.

And yeah, R0 = 1960 Reissue. R4, R6, R7, R8, and R9, just shorthand.

There's always been something about those Goldtops, especially the '57s... they've always been a little mystical to me, can't put my finger on it, but somehow enchanted.

 

[Churchhill]

Price wouldn't be the deciding factor, just that I am not in the sellers vacinity, and don't deal in Paypal.

Gotcha... I don't trust Paypal with people I don't know, especially F&F where that bypasses a lot of the protections. Don't blame you a bit!

 

[Budda]

That mothers son was likely not as unhappy as I am now for selling it. And to add insult to injury I traded it for a late 50's (I think 1959) Fender Telecaster that I also sold in my foolish youth. Back then I was more interested in touring the country on my motorcycle, than guitar. Sigh!
Thanks for the pickup info. I looked into the Faded 50's that Budda suggested, but they only seem to come in Honey Burst, and every picture I see of them looks different. In general, I don't like the look. Overall I prefer the $4,999, 1957 reissue. Not sure my budget can handle it though. Next to that I prefer the Standard 50's Goldtop, but I don't care for the gloss finish. But I really do wish I could recreate my old Goldtop. Nostalgia I guess.
Thanks also for the info on quality. As to playing before buying, it just seems as though the local shops don't stock the unfer $3k LP's, only $5k and up.

Pull a Mike Sullivan (russian circles) and brillo pad the gloss to matte. Done.

 

[Churchhill]

Not quite on topic, but I wanted to post about this... I recently put a set of the new Gibson Firebird pickups in my Firebird, took it to a jam last night, and I can't begin to describe how happy I am with the results. I knew it sounded good to me, but damn... it sounds like a Firebird, but it's got all of the qualities of the PAF-type humbuckers I'm looking for. It's clear, balanced, got a killer chime in the middle position, and just sounds "old." There's enough high to cut through anything, which is did very well, but is nowhere near harsh or brittle or sharp or any of the other things that I don't like about bright pickups. It just exceeded every expectation I had and took a guitar I've always liked but was never happy with the sound and turned it into a monster! While these certainly sound like what I expect a Firebird to sound like, they have all the qualities of the Gibson MHS pickups that I've been raving about. I don't want to drop a set into one of my humbucker guitars, that's what I've got the Firebird for, but if I can find a humbucker, that sounds like a humbucker (not a Firebird) and has all of these qualities, I'll be extremely happy!

My points here are that these are not "high dollar" pickups and that Gibson really seems to have upped their game. The Custombuckers seem to have a better reputation than the Burstbuckers (I love them both), which I've heard (no idea if this is true) that Ron Ellis was at least partly involved in their design (around 2013, if what I've heard is even remotely true). If Jared Brandon had anything to do with these new Firebird pups, I'll be very interested in what else they come out with. I'll admit, this makes me more than a little curious what those 1959 Collector's Edition pups really sound like.

@SpudMan - had to postpone comparing my R0 with the new LP Standard until Wednesday but will definitely let you know how the Custombuckers compare to the current Burstbuckers as soon as I can.

 

[fotozvuk]

Why are there no authoritative discussions on humbuckers with different types of magnets in one housing that are interesting in my opinion? https://3rdpower.com/magfrag-humbuckers/ I haven’t found any discussions on the Internet about their advantages and disadvantages. According to the description, they are universal for all PAF styles