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Petrucci V30 Mix-like IRs

dtpancio

Member
I tried many Mesa cab IRs, from the stock library, the free ones from ML, some stuff from Ownhammer, etc. but no one match Petrucci's tone like the Petrucci V30 Mix.

Can you tell me what's the closest UltraRes IR (or a combination of two) to the Petrucci V30 Mix?

Thanks in advance.
 

ML SOUND LAB

Cab Pack Wizard
Vendor
The Petrucci V30 Mix is a really dark mix of the Traditional Mesa cabinet. For Petrucci sounds in general I highly recommend Cab Pack 7. Check out clips by @Hyper Planet as he loves Cab Pack 7 and the Petrucci tone. The pack comes with Petrucci presets that sound almost identical to the real thing. Here's a clip of me using those presets:


Just so you know I'm a huge Petrucci fan myself. :)
 

Konstantin

Inspired
ML Cab Pack 7 - SM57-R121 #5 is very close to Factory IR, but still there is a difference between them.
By the way, does anybody know what mics are used in the Factory Petrucci Mix IR?
 
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Hyper Planet

Power User
Like Mikko mentioned in the above post Cab-Pack 7 is really good for achieving JP's tone, I called this cab-pack: ''The King'' as well :),
on the one hand inside selecting the right Cab-Pack and then chose the right IR actually determine %70 of your ultimate tone IMO on the other hand one of the most important elements of JP's tone is in the EQ, actually using right or wrong of faders in Mesa Mark IV, IIC+ amps can carry you to a heaven of JP's tone or a hell of honky, muddy, fluby tone that you don't want that :), if you want to get JP lead tone you have to really careful about 750 fader on 5-band Mark EQ, in Axe-Fx Boogie amps 5-band Mark series faders act is just a little bit different that to real boogie, smile shape just doesnt work very well in the Axe-Fx

just use your ears for matching JP's tone let your ears determine where faders should be not smile shape for this step I recommend use a HD track of DT music which is started or somewhwere in music with just the guitar, let the bass knob at zero or maximum 1.5 on Mark IV, turn the FAT switch ON let MV stay on 4, play some chunky open E power chord if you're on E standard then turn up the input gain and overdrive at the same time until you heard a nice fat heavy tone without those nasty fluby tone, for achieving the lead tone turn 750 fader a little bit higher than the rhythm tone preset in order to have a nice liquidy, singy tone, also turn up 750 fader helps you to bring the guitar forward in a mix in guitar solo sections which is so important

and at the end you can also listen to some of my sound-clips using CP 7




Hope it helps you :).
 

dtpancio

Member
The Petrucci V30 Mix is a really dark mix of the Traditional Mesa cabinet. For Petrucci sounds in general I highly recommend Cab Pack 7. Check out clips by @Hyper Planet as he loves Cab Pack 7 and the Petrucci tone. The pack comes with Petrucci presets that sound almost identical to the real thing. Here's a clip of me using those presets:


Just so you know I'm a huge Petrucci fan myself. :)

I know your cab-pack Mikko, it's impossible to don't know it :D I read all of your posts about boogies and gaining a good petrucci tone. As I said, I used and I currently use all of your IRs included in the factory list. They sound well but they doesn't sound the same (as the Petrucci Mix) They are an extract of the cab-pack 7, right?. Hyper Planet, many thanks for the advises, but no matter what boogie I use, how I set it, how good the tone I think it is, every time I change the IR with the Petrucci Mix I think "yeah, that's petrucci's tone!". Konstantin named ML Cab Pack 7 - SM57-R121 #5, if you Mikko think you have an IR or a couple of IRs that sounds closer, please tell me.

I also tried the farest from the center of the cone IRs from OwnHammer, and they are not so dark..

Last point..when I mix two IRs in the cab block (usually a SM57 and a ribbon or a condenser mic) i'm still able to hear the two different IRs. The Petrucci Mix is more like an unique sound where I don't find any trace of the SM57. But I'm sure there is..John always used it or at least a dynamic mic.

ML Cab Pack 7 - SM57-R121 #5 is very close to Factory IR, but still there is a difference between them.
By the way, does anybody know what mics are used in the Factory Petrucci Mix IR?

At that time I think a SM57 and a MD421.
 

ML SOUND LAB

Cab Pack Wizard
Vendor
Cab Pack 7 includes over a hundred different IR's. The factory IR's from Cab Pack 7 weren't chosen as the best examples of a Petrucci sound. I believe those are the IR's that Cliff liked the most out of that pack.

What is it that you're looking for exactly? If you are happy with the Petrucci Mix then you most likely won't find another IR that sounds just like it. It is very dark sounding. It might be that for that album Petrucci had bright amp settings and a dark mic up. If you have tweaked your preset to work with that Petrucci Mix then obviously that IR will sound the best with those settings and other IR's will sound too bright for sure. I highly recommend checking the Preset-Cab Bundles that come with Cab Pack 7 as those have been fine tuned to match some of Petrucci's real life guitar tones and have fitting amp and cab combinations.
 

Oscarraap

Member
I highly recommend checking the Preset-Cab Bundles that come with Cab Pack 7 as those have been fine tuned to match some of Petrucci's real life guitar tones and have fitting amp and cab combinations.

Hello Mikko,

Im struggeling a lot with AXE FX and Boogie models in particular for more than a year; to the point Im disheartened now.... I have read all there is to read about Boogies and spent countless hours trying. :(

I think my biggest problem is finding the right IR. It seems to me that working with an IR (as opposed to real cab) means that the amp model needs to be set to a very narrow window of settings, which is difficult to find. And real mark series Boogies are already quite difficult to begin with, so finding the right combination of IR and amp settings is particularly hard to me.

I have lots of 3rd party packs (TAF, Rosen, Joey Sturgis, Ownhammer), but I haven't tried yours yet. Most IR's seem much too bright for lead sound (this seems to be the point the OP is also making). I think most IR packs focus on rhythm.

To be honest, I'm not sure if yet another pack will make things easier for me. But perhaps your added presets could be helpful.

What amps did you use for your Petrucci presets? Are they recent firmware? Your examples are rhythm only; do you have lead presets included also?
I noticed hyperplanet has nice leads, but I didnt find any of his presets.

Thanks! Oscar
 
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ML SOUND LAB

Cab Pack Wizard
Vendor
Hello Mikko,

Im struggeling a lot with AXE FX and Boogie models in particular for more than a year; to the point Im disheartened now.... I have read all there is to read about Boogies and spent countless hours trying. :(

I think my biggest problem is finding the right IR. It seems to me that working with an IR (as opposed to real cab) means that the amp model needs to be set to a very narrow window of settings, which is difficult to find. And real mark series Boogies are already quite difficult to begin with, so finding the right combination of IR and amp settings is particularly hard to me.

I have lots of 3rd party packs (TAF, Rosen, Joey Sturgis, Ownhammer), but I haven't tried yours yet. Most IR's seem much too bright for lead sound (this seems to be the point the OP is also making). I think most IR packs focus on rhythm.

To be honest, I'm not sure if yet another pack will make things easier for me. But perhaps your added presets could be helpful.

What amps did you use for your Petrucci presets? Are they recent firmware? Your examples are rhythm only; do you have lead presets included also?
I noticed hyperplanet has nice leads, but I didnt find any of his presets.

Thanks! Oscar
Hey Oscar! It sounds to me like it's best to start over. Once you've gone back and forth tweaking a single preset for so long you can easily "break something". Setting a guitar tone shouldn't take too long. You can always fine tune it here and there through a longer period of time but the overall sound of it should IMO be there in 3-15 minutes already.

Obviously IR's have more power than the amp sims but if you're not getting close with f.ex. the stock IR: 073 — 4x12 USA TRAD 57-121 (ML) I wouldn't advice you to start throwing more money at the problem. There are many things that can be wrong which is why I'd advice you to record a small snippet of what you have now so I can help you out.

The original presets years back were made on EBMM JP guitars and people really had problems getting them to work on other guitars so these Quantum Preset-Cab Bundles went through a lot more fine tuning and tweaking to make the presets work with as many guitars as possible. The amps I use the most are just the regular USA Lead (the correct one for the Petrucci sound) and Recto 2 Modern Red and obviously the IIC+/++.

Here's a comparison I made with a real life Mark IV compared to the Axe-Fx and the same IR (which you can download for free in .wav format by the way) and that's the rhythm sound that was used for the CKJ EP and we definitely aim for a Petrucci type guitar sound there's no denying it at this point:


So that's my tutorial on how to set your Quantum FW Mark series amps to sound like Petrucci just like the settings are with the real Mark IV with the EL34s in the outer sockets just like JP runs it.
 

dtpancio

Member
Mikko, I primarily use the USA IIC+ BRT/DP with almost Petrucci's settings, the ones I've peeked in a couple of recent videos on YouTube (with the real IIC+, not the JP-2C). So, nothing especially bright, just his usual settings, with almost 0 basses, about 12 o'clock mids and higher trebles. A JP6 and a JP7 BFR KOA as guitars.

I find the Petrucci Mix a bit dark, we agree on this, but it has something that brings me to say "that's the one". All the other Mesa IRs I tried seems too bright and fizzy to me, maybe good tones, but not so accurated having in mind his tone and not so suitable for me.

What I'm looking for? Something that keeps that creamy, fat, midrangey sound, but I little less dark, maybe a series of IRs that are shades of it (like OwnHammer does with 10 IRs from the center to the border of the cone). And, less important, an UltraRes or a longer similar version.

And I search a tone for practicing and noodling, I finished tone, pleasant for my ears, nothing thinked to cut properly through the mix.

Why this IR sounds so different from the others? Petrucci described more than once his mic'ing technique, and it's nothing really fancy, with common mics..
 

Oscarraap

Member
Hey Mikko, thanks a lot for your help! It was encouraging. I made some good progress. The 808 drive I was using wasnt working for me so I changed to a fet drive. Harshness in higher register disappeared. And I started to audition IR's more methodically. Im pretty happy now with IIc++ and will start fresh on the mark IV with your suggestions!

Cheers!
 

Matt Steele

Experienced
I'll say it ONE MORE TIME!!! There is one particular impulse from cab pack 7 that not only nails the "John Petrucci" tone, it is THE BEST IMPULSE EVER! I mean EVER!!!

The the Petrucci V30 Mix IR is garbage in my honest opinion compared to the amazing impulses in cab pack 7.

One other tip... If you're not incorporating the GEQ 5 band eq in the amp settings in the axe as John does with his MK amps, you can't expect to get close to John's tones. Boogies are tricky to set up in real life and the same goes for them in the Axe. Make sure you're setting EVERYTHING properly. When you do, cab pack 7 are the impulses you'll want to be using. Trust me.

Cab pack 7 also has presets you can load up with corresponding impulses that nail many recorded rhythm tones from Dream Theater albums. Mikko even updated these presets after Quantum so that they would still be viable today with the latest firmware. Mikko did an amazing job with this cab pack. It should be a must buy for anyone using impulses today.
 
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dtpancio

Member
Everything is set properly, on the IIC+, IV, Triaxis, even the Lonestar. I even uploaded some presets on Axe Change a couple of years ago with settings Petrucci actually used along the years.

My personal presets are based on them with some tweaks, due to my ears, my taste and my needs.

As I said, I tried all possible Mesa IRs available for free (well I actually bought a 2 cab packs from OwnHammer on sale too) and in a way they all sounds different, but in another way they all sounds too harsh and bright. Playing a fixed note or chord, they all have this..how can I say, harmonic, sub note, on the high end that slightly differs in pitch from IR to IR that reminds me the idea of a motorcycle :D I know it's hard but I hope I gave the idea..maybe I'm talking about different voices.

Those IRs are very rich in sounds, maybe "too rich" and I like them more if I lower the High Cut in the cab block, but even with these tweak, I don't find the "creaminess" of the Petrucci V30 Mix.

You say that it's crap..well if you see the spectrum it gives a very well balanced sounds, at least with my presets, almost flat in the midrange, with the right amount of basses and (at least for my years) trebs. Talking about mixing, when I use this preset I almost leave the EQ as is. The guitars stay where they're supposed to be, let the other instruments breathe.

But it's not gold, and here I am, searching something with the same feel but better balanced and with some more control..and with this question in mind: why is it so different compared to all the others?

Last two things:
- I'm not in search of the specific Petrucci's tone in a specific songs, which I can say is not his genuine tone, but his tone after the mix and the master. And I try to avoid tone matching anything, it's something I don't like and it's the same reason why I'm not into the Kemper..
- I opened this thread in the middle of recording the intro of Our New World, trying to replicate that beautiful stereo sounds and if you listen to it, you'll find a very rich tone but not too bright and you'll see that with the Petrucci V30 Mix you will get much closer then the stock cabs from Mikko, OH and Fractal.

Maybe on these days I will post something to hear!
 

Matt Steele

Experienced
Everything is set properly, on the IIC+, IV, Triaxis, even the Lonestar. I even uploaded some presets on Axe Change a couple of years ago with settings Petrucci actually used along the years.

My personal presets are based on them with some tweaks, due to my ears, my taste and my needs.

As I said, I tried all possible Mesa IRs available for free (well I actually bought a 2 cab packs from OwnHammer on sale too) and in a way they all sounds different, but in another way they all sounds too harsh and bright. Playing a fixed note or chord, they all have this..how can I say, harmonic, sub note, on the high end that slightly differs in pitch from IR to IR that reminds me the idea of a motorcycle :D I know it's hard but I hope I gave the idea..maybe I'm talking about different voices.

Those IRs are very rich in sounds, maybe "too rich" and I like them more if I lower the High Cut in the cab block, but even with these tweak, I don't find the "creaminess" of the Petrucci V30 Mix.

You say that it's crap..well if you see the spectrum it gives a very well balanced sounds, at least with my presets, almost flat in the midrange, with the right amount of basses and (at least for my years) trebs. Talking about mixing, when I use this preset I almost leave the EQ as is. The guitars stay where they're supposed to be, let the other instruments breathe.

But it's not gold, and here I am, searching something with the same feel but better balanced and with some more control..and with this question in mind: why is it so different compared to all the others?

Last two things:
- I'm not in search of the specific Petrucci's tone in a specific songs, which I can say is not his genuine tone, but his tone after the mix and the master. And I try to avoid tone matching anything, it's something I don't like and it's the same reason why I'm not into the Kemper..
- I opened this thread in the middle of recording the intro of Our New World, trying to replicate that beautiful stereo sounds and if you listen to it, you'll find a very rich tone but not too bright and you'll see that with the Petrucci V30 Mix you will get much closer then the stock cabs from Mikko, OH and Fractal.

Maybe on these days I will post something to hear!

Both Mikko and Hyper Planet have posted audio clips of their tones using cab pack 7 & Axe FX nailing Petrucci tones. Nothing else need be said. Cab Pack 7 contains the best impulses if you're looking to nail John Petrucci style tones. PERIOD.

The search is over!

You don't need to say or post anything else other than your sound clips to prove your point. Both Mikko and Hyper have more than already proven theirs. Understand?

I can take any of Mikko's presets that all but match John's recordings with Mikko's impulses, swap in the Petrucci V30 IR and get dark garbage. But if that's your thing and you won't pay for quality IRs, good luck to you!

FYI... Mikko can explain this better than I can but his impluses incorporate "intentional inter-microphone phasing to add the unique but pleasant character we expect when using multiple microphones on a real guitar cabinet." Maybe that's the difference you're hearing/feeling that sounds like a motorcycle? This is intentional. This is also why John uses multiple mics during recording.
 
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ML SOUND LAB

Cab Pack Wizard
Vendor

CK USA TRAD SM57-MD421 01 - Best IR ever.
 

dtpancio

Member
Ok then, this is the reference (minute 11:31):


(or check the album version which it's similar but yet mixed and masterized)

These are two clips taken on the fly, reamped one with Petrucci V30 Mix, the other with USA Trad 57-121 + USA Trad 906-421 in Stereo UltraRes, a combination of two Mikko's IR which I used for the most of the time since I got the Axe Fx II. This is a blind test, but very easy to spot which is which. :D

I think neither or two nails perfectly the reference but I think one is noticeably closer than the other.


 

dtpancio

Member
But I want to add a couple of things:

1. Mikko's IRs suits extremely better with my IIC+ preset seeking this tone:
I used the settings spotted on this very video after all (or the other one similar with che comparison between mark IIc+ and the V)
2. On the latest album Petrucci has darker tones, which I think Petrucci V30 Mix replicates better
3. When it comes to soloing I'm even more into this IR which is more focused on the mids and warmer than the others which I see them better with rhythm sounds
 

ML SOUND LAB

Cab Pack Wizard
Vendor
I strongly recommend taking a look at this thread where I show my go-to IR's for different types of Petrucci tones: http://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/free-john-petrucci-presets-for-axe-fx-ii-and-ax8.114604/

In the pictures you'll see the IR I chose to use for each guitar sound and I also have the sound samples there so you can have a listen. :) My go-to IR is definitely the one I use for Petrucci's Jaws of Life guitar tone which would be the SM57-MD421 01 which is what people in this thread are liking a lot as well.
 
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