Pet Peeve

[Slate]

Not sure who experiences this but it has been one of my pet peeves with the Axe since day one.


The level controls.


For example I place and amp in the layout, any amp, for this I’ll use the “Usa Clean”. I know the DRIVE/GAIN and MASTER work together and they both create distortion depending on their relation to each other. I get the sound I want a nice clean with very little distortion, then I adjust the “Layout, last tab, Level Control” to bring up the volume in relation to my other presets and it starts to add distortion. Why is this. Can’t I use that to bring up the level without adding distortion? Again I’m not talking about the master level to the right of the master volume in the amp setting, I am referring to the whole pre-set volume control.

 

[javajunkie]

Not sure who experiences this but it has been one of my pet peeves with the Axe since day one.


The level controls.


For example I place and amp in the layout, any amp, for this I’ll use the “Usa Clean”. I know the DRIVE/GAIN and MASTER work together and they both create distortion depending on their relation to each other. I get the sound I want a nice clean with very little distortion, then I adjust the “Layout, last tab, Level Control” to bring up the volume in relation to my other presets and it starts to add distortion. Why is this. Can’t I use that to bring up the level without adding distortion? Again I’m not talking about the master level to the right of the master volume in the amp setting, I am referring to the whole pre-set volume control.

That should not add distortion unless you start clipping the output. I'll test now.

 

[javajunkie]

It is not doing that for me?

 

[Dpoirier]

It doesn't do that for me either.

I rely heavily on the "level" control to balance my presets against one another.

If increasing the level adds distortion, you're either overdriving another block in the signal chain, or the Axe-FX output, or whatever amp or sound card you feed into.

 

[Slate]

What is the "MIX" level for on the last tab out layout?

I thought that was the volume for the preset. When I turn this up it adds distrotion to the sound, and this way before the red clip light comes on.

 

[javajunkie]

What is the "MIX" level for on the last tab out layout?

I thought that was the volume for the preset. When I turn this up it adds distrotion to the sound, and this way before the red clip light comes on.

It is for leveling your patches. It does not do this for me. what do you have the outs of the axe-fx connected to?

 

[Slate]

What is the "MIX" level for on the last tab out layout?

I thought that was the volume for the preset. When I turn this up it adds distrotion to the sound, and this way before the red clip light comes on.

It is for leveling your patches. It does not do this for me. what do you have the outs of the axe-fx connected to?

I use mono out and plug it into the return on a marshall modern vintage head (using only the power amp side).

 

[javajunkie]

What is the "MIX" level for on the last tab out layout?

I thought that was the volume for the preset. When I turn this up it adds distrotion to the sound, and this way before the red clip light comes on.

It is for leveling your patches. It does not do this for me. what do you have the outs of the axe-fx connected to?

I use mono out and plug it into the return on a marshall modern vintage head (using only the power amp side).

There you go. The distortion you hear is the tube poweramp of the marshall. You are increasing the level of signal into the poweramp section which is driving the tubes. A drawback of using a tube amp for a poweramp. You can turn down the output level knob on the axe-fx to compensate.

 

[Slate]

It is for leveling your patches. It does not do this for me. what do you have the outs of the axe-fx connected to?

I use mono out and plug it into the return on a marshall modern vintage head (using only the power amp side).

There you go. The distortion you hear is the tube poweramp of the marshall. You are increasing the level of signal into the poweramp section which is driving the tubes. A drawback of using a tube amp for a poweramp. You can turn down the output level knob on the axe-fx to compensate.

Not True, if that was the case when I turn the output volume via the front AXE output control it would distort like you suggested. But it does not it gets much much louder with no distortion change what so ever. This is not a signal level issue coming out of the AXE, I have tons of head room before it the tubes will even begin to drive. Its definiltely something inside the axe. Maybe not a design issue maybe the way I have the layout and routing, but either way its a pain for me.

On a side note... I run my AXE through various outputs (direct into a mixer, direct into a solid state power amp) and this problem is the same.

Only thing I can think is maybe the power amp block (which I use even with an external power amp) is distorting. I have the SAG way low.

 

[javajunkie]

It is for leveling your patches. It does not do this for me. what do you have the outs of the axe-fx connected to?

[quote:g71wmhp8]I use mono out and plug it into the return on a marshall modern vintage head (using only the power amp side).

There you go. The distortion you hear is the tube poweramp of the marshall. You are increasing the level of signal into the poweramp section which is driving the tubes. A drawback of using a tube amp for a poweramp. You can turn down the output level knob on the axe-fx to compensate.

Not True, if that was the case when I turn the output volume via the front AXE output control it would distort like you suggested. But it does not it gets much much louder with no distortion change what so ever. This is not a signal level issue coming out of the AXE, I have tons of head room before it the tubes will even begin to drive. Its definiltely something inside the axe. Maybe not a design issue maybe the way I have the layout and routing, but either way its a pain for me.

On a side note... I run my AXE through various outputs (direct into a mixer, direct into a solid state power amp) and this problem is the same.

Only thing I can think is maybe the power amp block (which I use even with an external power amp) is distorting. I have the SAG way low.[/quote:g71wmhp8]


Well its not doing it here. The level is applied after all the effects before the A/D converters so it is really difficult to imagine how that would happen. The mix is applied after all the effects including the poweramp block so it really can't be that.

 

[porieux]

You'll most likely want to turn off power amp emulation on the Axe when running this way. At least when I briefly tried it with my amp on the effects return it made a huge difference.

EDIT-I think I had it set up wrong, when I go into the return on my amp it actually sounds better with Power Amp on (no thump). Of course I am not running at super loud volume.

 

[Jay Mitchell]

then I adjust the “Layout, last tab, Level Control” to bring up the volume in relation to my other presets and it starts to add distortion.

I think you mean the "Layout, Mix Page" control that is labeled "Main." If so, that control does not add distortion. I normally use the level control in the amp block to level my presets, but I just checked the main level control in a clean preset. I can run it up to output clip indication with no audible distortion.

That control adjusts the level just prior to the A/D conversion, so it is never driving a nonlinear block in the Axe-Fx.

 

[Slate]

Im going to try to pull effects out and replace them with Shunts and try the process of elmination. Maybe something is weird going on with my layouts.

Thanks for all the help.

 

[Jay Mitchell]

Im going to try to pull effects out and replace them with Shunts and try the process of elmination. Maybe something is weird going on with my layouts.

There is no way for your layout to cause the problem you're describing. Every block in the layout is upstream of the main level control.

 

[<MACHINE>]

......for this I’ll use the “Usa Clean”......I get the sound I want a nice clean with very little distortion.......to bring up the volume in relation to my other presets and it starts to add distortion.

If you started with distortion presets and then made clean presets to match in level, this might be the problem.

Try starting with a clean amp, get it to sound the way you want, bring it up with the level control you are referring to...to as loud as you need it with out distortion. then follow with progressively higher gain presets...matching those levels to the first clean one.

I forget the wording of the reason this is...something about clean headroom.

But if this is not the problem (hope it is so this helps)...sorry for the ramble

 

[knoll]

What do you have in the signal chain after amp model? I think delay block can clip internally. And cab can add distortion if distortion is dialed in. But i guess you don't have cab clock because you go into guitar amp.

 

[Dutch]

......for this I’ll use the “Usa Clean”......I get the sound I want a nice clean with very little distortion.......to bring up the volume in relation to my other presets and it starts to add distortion.

If you started with distortion presets and then made clean presets to match in level, this might be the problem.

Try starting with a clean amp, get it to sound the way you want, bring it up with the level control you are referring to...to as loud as you need it with out distortion. then follow with progressively higher gain presets...matching those levels to the first clean one.

I forget the wording of the reason this is...something about clean headroom.

But if this is not the problem (hope it is so this helps)...sorry for the ramble

Overdrive compresses. Hugely. The peaks (and the rest of the tone) get squashed so much and the overall level brought up so much that the sustain seems stronger. It isn't, of course, overdrive does not add to the sound your guitar makes, it's just amplifying it more and compressing the harder part, and maybe exite your strings a bit from the sound level from the speaker. For direct recording that would mostly not be much, unless your driving your monitors hard. Anyway, overdriven patches sound louder for longer while clean patches have way higher peaks and seem to 'die out' sooner. That's why you should start with the most clean uncompressed tone you use, get that to a level where it doesn't light the red leds underneath the lcd yet, turn down a couple of dB, and match the rest of your tones to that.

If you do it the other way around and match cleans to overdriven sounds the peaks of those cleans will kill your Axe-FX stone dead.


But it seems that your presets do not clip the output so the above does not apply. Have no idea what could cause that distortion. Nothing like that on my machine.

 

[fandyboy]

Not sure who experiences this but it has been one of my pet peeves with the Axe since day one.


The level controls.


For example I place and amp in the layout, any amp, for this I’ll use the “Usa Clean”. I know the DRIVE/GAIN and MASTER work together and they both create distortion depending on their relation to each other. I get the sound I want a nice clean with very little distortion, then I adjust the “Layout, last tab, Level Control” to bring up the volume in relation to my other presets and it starts to add distortion. Why is this. Can’t I use that to bring up the level without adding distortion? Again I’m not talking about the master level to the right of the master volume in the amp setting, I am referring to the whole pre-set volume control.

Well, as the guys have said there is no way adjusting the master fader will affect the drive of any amp/cab blocks. That is very strange, I can only think something post-master fader is very sensitive to the volume changes, but you say you've turned the output knob up and the distortion isn't there. I'm stumped.

I would try hooking up the axe to some monitors or headphones to see if the issue occurs there.

 

[Lukator]

Getting the right level for all sounds is not so easy. Different amps, cabs, effekt chains, clean and distorted sounds... It is very hard to give this all a consistent output level only with ears. A good idea is using a level meter to dialing the right output levels of all sounds.

I've found this in google: http://www.darkwood.demon.co.uk/PC/meter.html , the V-type scale with peak level display is very useful for me. It needs no installation.

At the last gigs my levels were very okay at all sounds
I've not realized any distortions at higher volume levels of the master controls in the Axe, will check it too in the next time.

It seems, the new editor has level meters integratet for input and output, hoping it will displays the peak level too.

 

[SparkyG]

some interesting responses.

I've been using the Level on the amp block to level my patches rather than the Main vol located on the last page of the layout menu. What's the difference?? and what's the best way?