Octaver bad tracking and artifacts...

A

Athan.G

Member
Hi there
Being an Ultra owner since firmware 6.00, I've noticed that the octave divider is almost useless especialy on clean tones as there is a prety bad tracking as well as it generates some kind of "distortion like" artifacts on every sustained note.
You can hear what exactly I mean at the attachments below as well as compare the axe-fx with a boss Gt-8 octaver with identical settings.
I was waiting for a firmware update solution but we are at 7.08 now and still nothing... :|


http://rapidshare.com/files/233186161/axe-fx.mp3.html

http://rapidshare.com/files/233186163/boss_gt-8.mp3.html
 
I have to concur. I would love to use it but the bad tracking and underlying ring modulation type sound make it so I don't.
 
Error

This file is neither allocated to a Premium Account, or a Collector's Account, and can therefore only be downloaded 10 times.

This limit is reached.

To download this file, the uploader either needs to transfer this file into his/her Collector's Account, or upload the file again. The file can later be moved to a Collector's Account. The uploader just needs to click the delete link of the file to get further information.

-------------

Please upload these suckers to Mediafire or Soundclick... or something!!! And please don't expect Cliff to jump at your request to answer your question... he may or may not answer. He's the nugget ninja... he shows up and gives us a nugget... then leaves.
 
javajunkie said:
I have to concur. I would love to use it but the bad tracking and underlying ring modulation type sound make it so I don't.
Click to expand...

same here
 
Athan.G said:
Hi there
Being an Ultra owner since firmware 6.00, I've noticed that the octave divider is almost useless especialy on clean tones as there is a prety bad tracking as well as it generates some kind of "distortion like" artifacts on every sustained note.
You can hear what exactly I mean at the attachments below as well as compare the axe-fx with a boss Gt-8 octaver with identical settings.
I was waiting for a firmware update solution but we are at 7.08 now and still nothing... :|


http://rapidshare.com/files/233186161/axe-fx.mp3.html

http://rapidshare.com/files/233186163/boss_gt-8.mp3.html
Click to expand...
Two things for me... The GT-8 definitely sounds better... but I notice a bit of the same tracking issues when playing the "lower" notes... The second thing is that you are playing considerably "lighter" on the Axe-fx clip... so I would have to say that it may not be a fair fight because the Axe-fx is not getting a strong enough signal from your playing... or maybe you have the mix set differently... so again... it's not an apples to apples clip. Does this happen across the board or is only on the lower notes?
 
mortega76 said:
but I notice a bit of the same tracking issues when playing the "lower" notes... The second thing is that you are playing considerably "lighter" on the Axe-fx clip... so I would have to say that it may not be a fair fight because the Axe-fx is not getting a strong enough signal from your playing... or maybe you have the mix set differently... so again... it's not an apples to apples clip. Does this happen across the board or is only on the lower notes?
Click to expand...
The thing with Octave Deviders is that none of them track particularly good in lower registers. I've played a lot of Octave Deviders since it's one of my fav effects ever build and if it's done the way they should be then they don't track well as soon as you're below the 5th fret.

As much as I'm all for improvement, I think some people just confuse Octave Deviders for Hamonizers or 'Octavers'. Different beasts. They need to sound nasty and dirty otherwise one could just use a Harmonizer set 1 or 2 octaves down...
 
mortega76 said:
Athan.G said:
Hi there
Being an Ultra owner since firmware 6.00, I've noticed that the octave divider is almost useless especialy on clean tones as there is a prety bad tracking as well as it generates some kind of "distortion like" artifacts on every sustained note.
You can hear what exactly I mean at the attachments below as well as compare the axe-fx with a boss Gt-8 octaver with identical settings.
I was waiting for a firmware update solution but we are at 7.08 now and still nothing... :|


http://rapidshare.com/files/233186161/axe-fx.mp3.html

http://rapidshare.com/files/233186163/boss_gt-8.mp3.html
Click to expand...
Two things for me... The GT-8 definitely sounds better... but I notice a bit of the same tracking issues when playing the "lower" notes... The second thing is that you are playing considerably "lighter" on the Axe-fx clip... so I would have to say that it may not be a fair fight because the Axe-fx is not getting a strong enough signal from your playing... or maybe you have the mix set differently... so again... it's not an apples to apples clip. Does this happen across the board or is only on the lower notes?
Click to expand...

Sure the Gt-8 doesn't have the perfect tracking but it tracks waaaaay better than the Axe-Fx for a WAAAAAY cheaper device that it is. But what annoys me even more on the Axe, is that "ring modulation type" issue on every sustained note which is far more audible on higher notes. This Axe's behavior is the same no matter if you hit the strings lighter or harder and thus I really believe it's a fair comparison. The only unfair thing in this comparison could be the fact that the mix on the Axe is set higher, but I did this just to make the problem more audible. On the higher notes the tracking is better but the "ring modulation" issue even worse.
 
VegaBaby said:
mortega76 said:
but I notice a bit of the same tracking issues when playing the "lower" notes... The second thing is that you are playing considerably "lighter" on the Axe-fx clip... so I would have to say that it may not be a fair fight because the Axe-fx is not getting a strong enough signal from your playing... or maybe you have the mix set differently... so again... it's not an apples to apples clip. Does this happen across the board or is only on the lower notes?
Click to expand...
The thing with Octave Deviders is that none of them track particularly good in lower registers. I've played a lot of Octave Deviders since it's one of my fav effects ever build and if it's done the way they should be then they don't track well as soon as you're below the 5th fret.

As much as I'm all for improvement, I think some people just confuse Octave Deviders for Hamonizers or 'Octavers'. Different beasts. They need to sound nasty and dirty otherwise one could just use a Harmonizer set 1 or 2 octaves down...
Click to expand...

Thanks for the input mortega76 but I'm not sure if I follow you.. You mean that pedals like Boss octaver or EBS octabass are different things than an octave divider ??? From what I read at the EBS website I don't think so: ("The EBS OctaBass analog octave divider creates a single note one octave below the pitch of the played note"). BTW have a look on their soundsamples http://www.bass.se/2007/octabass.htm to hear a perfect tracking and a really great sounding octaver considering that being a bass guitar effect the tracking should be even more difficult due to the even "lower" notes.
I really love both of them and I wish I could have the same effect on the axe-fx. As for the description "They need to sound nasty and dirty", I don't think this has anything to do with the "ring modulation" issue.
 
Athan.G said:
VegaBaby said:
mortega76 said:
but I notice a bit of the same tracking issues when playing the "lower" notes... The second thing is that you are playing considerably "lighter" on the Axe-fx clip... so I would have to say that it may not be a fair fight because the Axe-fx is not getting a strong enough signal from your playing... or maybe you have the mix set differently... so again... it's not an apples to apples clip. Does this happen across the board or is only on the lower notes?
Click to expand...
The thing with Octave Deviders is that none of them track particularly good in lower registers. I've played a lot of Octave Deviders since it's one of my fav effects ever build and if it's done the way they should be then they don't track well as soon as you're below the 5th fret.

As much as I'm all for improvement, I think some people just confuse Octave Deviders for Hamonizers or 'Octavers'. Different beasts. They need to sound nasty and dirty otherwise one could just use a Harmonizer set 1 or 2 octaves down...
Click to expand...

Thanks for the input mortega76 but I'm not sure if I follow you.. You mean that pedals like Boss octaver or EBS octabass are different things than an octave divider ??? From what I read at the EBS website I don't think so: ("The EBS OctaBass analog octave divider creates a single note one octave below the pitch of the played note"). BTW have a look on their soundsamples http://www.bass.se/2007/octabass.htm to hear a perfect tracking and a really great sounding octaver considering that being a bass guitar effect the tracking should be even more difficult due to the even "lower" notes.
I really love both of them and I wish I could have the same effect on the axe-fx. As for the description "They need to sound nasty and dirty", I don't think this has anything to do with the "ring modulation" issue.
Click to expand...


ditto with the foxrox octron.
 
Athan.G said:
VegaBaby said:
mortega76 said:
but I notice a bit of the same tracking issues when playing the "lower" notes... The second thing is that you are playing considerably "lighter" on the Axe-fx clip... so I would have to say that it may not be a fair fight because the Axe-fx is not getting a strong enough signal from your playing... or maybe you have the mix set differently... so again... it's not an apples to apples clip. Does this happen across the board or is only on the lower notes?
Click to expand...
The thing with Octave Deviders is that none of them track particularly good in lower registers. I've played a lot of Octave Deviders since it's one of my fav effects ever build and if it's done the way they should be then they don't track well as soon as you're below the 5th fret.

As much as I'm all for improvement, I think some people just confuse Octave Deviders for Hamonizers or 'Octavers'. Different beasts. They need to sound nasty and dirty otherwise one could just use a Harmonizer set 1 or 2 octaves down...
Click to expand...

Thanks for the input mortega76 but I'm not sure if I follow you.. You mean that pedals like Boss octaver or EBS octabass are different things than an octave divider ??? From what I read at the EBS website I don't think so: ("The EBS OctaBass analog octave divider creates a single note one octave below the pitch of the played note"). BTW have a look on their soundsamples http://www.bass.se/2007/octabass.htm to hear a perfect tracking and a really great sounding octaver considering that being a bass guitar effect the tracking should be even more difficult due to the even "lower" notes.
I really love both of them and I wish I could have the same effect on the axe-fx. As for the description "They need to sound nasty and dirty", I don't think this has anything to do with the "ring modulation" issue.
Click to expand...
I think you meant "Vega"... I know we all look the same and all... ;)
 
The Octave Divider on the Axe-Fx is a recreation of the old analog octave dividers. It's supposed to sound all glitchy and funky.

The GT-8 clip you posted is simply a pitch shift down an octave. If that's the sound you want set the pitch to Fixed Harmony and set the shift to -12.

In case it hasn't been said enough: READ THE MANUAL!!!
 
I think what Cliff may have been going for with that effect is like this pedal:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVD89wUhJGc

Here is what I am looking for (octave down-wise):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zs452VsT ... re=related
The octave down in the fixed harmony really doesn't do it justice - trust me I have tried and tried. No biggie for me, the axe-fx takes pedals so well it is easy just to use the Foxrox. I can give a couple of tips for getting sounding a good as possible: fixed harmony :Use the hi-freq cut maybe all the way down to 4500, alternatively use a filter and do the same thing - if you only use one voice, be sure to turn the level of the second down, turn pitch tracking on, play with tracking - turn as high as you can stand before the latency gets too bad - mess with placement, sometimes between amp and cab is best.

Here is what some of the others are looking for:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIqSASz4 ... re=related

These are all analog

Regardless, this really isn't under the realm of bug. It is either a feature request or improvement request. I'll move it to the wish list forum shortly.
 
javajunkie said:
I think what Cliff may have been going for with that effect is like this pedal:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVD89wUhJGc

Here is what I am looking for (octave down-wise):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zs452VsT ... re=related
The octave down in the fixed harmony really doesn't do it justice - trust me I have tried and tried. No biggie for me, the axe-fx takes pedals so well it is easy just to use the Foxrox. I can give a couple of tips for getting sounding a good as possible: fixed harmony :Use the hi-freq cut maybe all the way down to 4500, alternatively use a filter and do the same thing - if you only use one voice, be sure to turn the level of the second down, turn pitch tracking on, play with tracking - turn as high as you can stand before the latency gets too bad - mess with placement, sometimes between amp and cab is best.

Here is what some of the others are looking for:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIqSASz4 ... re=related

These are all analog

Regardless, this really isn't under the realm of bug. It is either a feature request or improvement request. I'll move it to the wish list forum shortly.
Click to expand...


While I still believe that the bad tracking itself IS a reason for this topic to stay at the "Bugs" forum, I agree with you on everything else.
+ 10000000 !!!!
 
FractalAudio said:
The Octave Divider on the Axe-Fx is a recreation of the old analog octave dividers. It's supposed to sound all glitchy and funky.

The GT-8 clip you posted is simply a pitch shift down an octave. If that's the sound you want set the pitch to Fixed Harmony and set the shift to -12.

In case it hasn't been said enough: READ THE MANUAL!!!
Click to expand...


Sorry Cliff but (with all my respect to you) I have to dissagree. :|

According to the Axe's manual:

"The Octave Divider creates two new notes one and two octaves below the input. This effect
simulates the classic effect and works by actually turning the input into a square wave and then
dividing the signal by two using flip-flops. Like the classic effect, this effect only works on single
notes and works best on notes above the fifth fret."

The Gt-8's octaver (used in the clip) works EXACTLY like the old boss OC-2 octave pedal, or every old octave divider out there, (and thus called octaver in the Gt-8's menu and not pitch-shifter), being MONO and adding two new notes one and two octaves below. The fixed harmony set to -12 is a totaly different thing and of course it doesn't sound as an octave divider to everyone ears.
I'm a 41 years old guitarist and guitar luthier and I'm working more than 25 years as a pro, studio, session and live musician and octave divider is one of the most common effects we use here in Greece for our folk music. Being a tone freaker, I've tried and even bought almost every guitar effect out there all these years. I'm the first Axe-fx owner in my country (and many of my friends bought or are planning to buy an Axe-Fx after a demostration in my studio as I'm more than happy with this God-sent machine!).
But since we use octave dividers here a lot, I think Axe-Fx could do this job a lot better. I already have 3 of these old vintage analog boxes. None of them has this kind of "ring modulation" issue, but even more important is the fact that ALL of them do track prety well. The Axe's tracking to my ears IS a bug not only on lower notes but also on notes on A, D, and even G strings (using high-end custom guitars), and unfortunately this makes it useless. :cry:

Cliff, you are really doing an amazing job with Axe-Fx and you are a God-sent genius for all of us but IMHO I think you have to reconsider the octave divider programing.

BTW I still believe this topic should stay at the "bugs" chapter.



Thanks in advance, Athan.G
 
Athan.G said:
Sorry Cliff but I have to dissagree on this. :|
Click to expand...
Wow, that came off a little strong. :?

Our favorite guitar processor is going through some growing pains right now, and my feeling is that this is a really bad time to pile on with requests (or out-and-out demands for that matter). Letting this sit on the wish list for a while will undoubtedly be more effective.

A gentle reminder on occasion may also help. Just ask Shredi "Mark IIC+" Knight. :lol:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom