Not completly happy with 9.03

[hhjh.de]

(I don't mean this in any aggressive way - written it looks harsher than I want to say it):

What for? Some are happy with the old firmwares, most seem to be happy with the new ones.

Why would a poll be interesting? If you've found a sound you're happy with, by all means, keep it.

 

[Dutch]

EDIT: listen to the lead sound here (it's the same patch with 9.02, sounds great to my ears too...but I can't reach the soft and smooth tone I had on 7.04) http://www.pacocasanovas.ch/hipkick.mp3

I guess you're grateful onebaldbloke didn't get his crack, then?
It'd be even more difficult to get "smooth".

Just illustrating that some man's treasure is another man's trash. Love that tune, BTW.

 

[mba]

9.03 is 50% better than 6.02, exactly.

I've read a thread talking about 5.XX vs 9.0x so i have downloaded the older version that i have found on the Fractal website to make a comparison because i didn't remember that it sounds bad. And it sounds great. So nothing related with the version number, i was happy with the 9.0.
9.03 is the first release that makes me feel uncomfortable for the reasons i have describe.
I understand people that stay with an old firmware because they have find a tone that they like no problem.
The reason of this post is because IMO there are phenomenoms in 9.03 that i have never heard before and that sound not ok for me.

 

[mba]

[quote="Scott Peterson":qnva1a8t]

In all the years I've been on the Internet and in all my conversations with other guitarists, I've never heard terms like 'ducky' tones.

That said, coming back to his problem, I've heard the 'ducky' sounds. I think he means when it makes a 'quack' sound, sort of like a wah pedal in the very high frequency registers when you just turn the pedal on. Turn off the 'treble bright'.[/quote:qnva1a8t]
Right this exactly what i feel. Turning off the bright cap help a lot but you sometimes hear it clearly again. Lowering the middle help in this case again. I've never heard that before so. Cliff says that on most amp setting the bass & treble at 0 and the middle to the max gives a flat response. Before 9.03 i use to have bass middle treble at 5 8 5. Now it's 6 3 6 so completly different.

 

[mba]

In all the years I've been on the Internet and in all my conversations with other guitarists, I've never heard terms like 'ducky' tones. Perhaps it is a language barrier; but I personally can't understand what it is the OP is actually trying to describe. Post an example and don't be condescending and insulting with your OP and perhaps folks could actually help you instead of just reading your thread as a troll thread.

And sorry to those that want to go to war over this or that; if you don't explain the context and give examples - tangible examples - of what you are trying to describe, how can anyone help you?

I have already posted a sample to compare 9.0 and 9.03 about the ringing tone.
_ Here it is :
http://www.mediafire.com/file/mmmuwnwwfzt/900.wav
This is a plexi 1 without the bright cap and i have lowered the B+ to get more growl it works great before 9.03 with all firmwares. The IR comes from one of guitar hack into my signature.

_ then the same preset with 9.03 :
http://www.mediafire.com/file/idmzmmiyiyt/903.wav
The play is a little bit sloppy, i was trying to remember how i have played it first and didn't get it.
Except for me the too mushy sound you can clearly hear at 23" something ringing in the back and this time it's direct no tube poweramp.
In the same order at 6" i strum quickly the strings but you can always hear the last power chord that i have made as if there was a reverb on this chord. I never get that on a real amp and never with the previous firmwares.
By the way the strings of my les paul are completly dead but i can get easily the harmonics and playing tapping is more easy too, even with dead strings. For me the new tone rings too much there must be a just middle between 9.0 and 9.03.
With this direction the Axe-Fx goes to the easy listening and easy playing direction of the eleven rack and it's not a good direction, not natural and realistic for me.
I've tried to lower the HF resonance but there is always someting in the back and using not the poweramp modelisation gives immediatly a more natural sound (less mixed).
I know how to get a mixed sound with a speaker. The Eminence legend V12 is a speaker that has a lot of chime and gives a wet sound that you can feel as mixed. But it comes from the speaker not from the gear. I have a G12T100 in the same cab and it gives me completly different result.
The Axe-Fx is not there to compensate the weakness of your poweramp solution it's just a preamp and you have to find the solution that gives you the more accurate result in the same configuration than the real deal. I have found one solution that gives me before 9.03 and with all firmware really good result and i have compare it many times with the real deal. If you ask to the Axe-Fx to compensate all the lacks i'm afraid that by the end you will get a mixed sound and that it will sound like my VG99. When i hear the VG99 i feel like listen the radio.

 

[mba]

IMO
The default parameters for each amp type should sound very much like the real-world amp being modelled.
Up until 9.0 this was, for the most part true, in my experience.
After 9.02 it is to a large degree, IMO, not true.
If that's whining then I'm guilty as charged.

But your idea for user definable Amp Type defaults is a good one.
I don't think we'll ever see it implemented mind you, but it's a good idea.

Right for me. I've complained about the too mushy sound and cliff told me to lower the HF resonance parameter. I have tried it and it help but the texture of the overdrive is different from 9.0. I feel like i get a compressed overdrive. It sounds like my plexi thru his attenuator and i prefer the 9.0 overdrive that sound more like the real deal for me.

For all my complaints, the quaky sound is a slight effect so a very slight detail but i can hear it sometimes and specially with the bright cap engaged. For the ringing tone i can hear it well, it's a detail but i hear it. For the too mushy sound it's there with no doubt.

I am agree with all people that the cleans sound better but they ring too much for me.
I feel that cliff get his inspiration for 9.03 from the eleven rack for the clean tone and the easy listening and from Stef Herbuel for the mushy sound. The cleans ring too much and the try to get more meat in the sound is ok but i'm not satisfied with the result i hope that the mushy sound is a work in progress too.

 

[stef herbuel]

Why would a poll be interesting? If you've found a sound you're happy with, by all means, keep it.

i think it would be interesting just to know what firmware people prefered, just to be curious..i'm sure it would be 9.03 for 95% but it would be interesting to know where the other "stopped"

 

[mba]

Cliff is 100 percent right. Either use what makes you happy and shut up, or live with it. I've seen tons of stupid complaints at this forums, and even I'm getting fed up with it. It's like the guy that thought the sound was better with cab sims on, even though he used a real cap with the Axe. His ears must be totally rubbish, but if he likes it that way, then use it that way and stop bugging Cliff.

I can agree with that but... I'm a tone addict and i do all that i can to get only the sound of my amps and of my cabs. I have a plexi replica build like a metropoulos with something special because it has 2 V1 in shared cathod, one for each channel.(so 4 preamp tubes) I have changed all the caps with real mustards and half of the resistors with original NOS Iskra then too the coupling power cap for a lemco. Do you know what it means?
I have bought a randall RM50 and spend a lot of time tweaking one module and try a lot of caps and components and i've learned a lot there. I have a JTM45 40th anniversary with his stack, the best stack that i ever heard. Really clear tone and sensible to the play. I think that you have to go to scumback speakers to get that because they didn't sell the speakers. The top cab is a crunch machine, the floor cab has more low end and gives more regular saturations. I'm using with the axe a little amp that has already been tweaked and i have make some modifications with nos parts too. A simple path just a few caps an resistors. I use it with modern and NOS tubes they all give me different results. I think that i'm not a tone idiot but perhaps i am or perhaps you are. Did you want to compare your ss poweramp with your FRFR speaker and IRs to my solution? With no doubt i will win hands down because there is no IR that can beat a real speaker and no ss poweramp that can give the result of a good matched tube poweramp with good tubes. Ask yourself why Fractal Audio has choosen to set tubes into his reactor when it's so simple for a machine to add a few more components.
And it didn't get me into trouble it's normal for me...the Axe-Fx is just a preamp even if it has poweramp simulation, if you want to reach the real deal go for this solution even if you can have really good results with FRFR.
This is why i am a big fan of the Axe-Fx, because i know what it can do or i think so.

 

[PacoCasanovasOld]

guess you're grateful onebaldbloke didn't get his crack, then?
It'd be even more difficult to get "smooth".

Well, I never had the pleasure to see the crack-thread here! Muwahahaha..... :lol:

Nah.....I guess I have to buy another axe-fx. One for my 7.04 tones and the other for my new 9.xx experiments. I also found some great tones in 9.xx But I miss my Pacolation-Overdrive!
So what? Will save money to buy my 2nd axe-fx then! :mrgreen:

 

[mba]

[quote="Jay Mitchell":3fysmjgh]

9.03 is 50% better than 6.02, exactly.

You mean it's +1.76dB. :lol:

I go along with Cliff saying "use what makes YOU happy". Over ten months i was staying on 7.04 (even had a benchmark tone, when it comes to the meanings of the guys at thegearpage.net or G66, which still hosting my clip in their axe-sound-samples). Now i'm mostly on 9.00 and it sounded a bit different, but ok too......who cares, as long I can do what I love to do..... :lol:

@ bmi: I share the same experience, but at the end I could go back to 7.04 when ever I like to. I won't speak for Cliff's behalf, but I guess your guessing is not so wrong, the Axe today is made to fit to the reactor FR system, maybe Cliff using the Atomic as his reference speaker system today..... Or maybe not. Ask him (maybe you get an answer....)

Maybe "this" is conspiracy here, but.....he is from europe, france....almost like me (from switzerland). It seems to be as "we" are not so worthy....so you can making fun! I hope my thoughts are all wrong! :?[/quote:3fysmjgh]
I am agree with that just thinking that something is not OK in 9.03 and no european conspiracy at all.

I think it's not just a language problem, it's a problem how people talk to each other. In the US (from what I heard when I was working for the european partner of Clair Systems some years back) people would give you compliments if you do a good job, if your job was not that great, they simply saying nothing. If the job was worse than *******, they saying something negative.
In Europe, people tend to say nothing if the job was great, they saying something negative when the job was not that good.

So please keep that in mind, that we have to share our thoughts when ever something is not quite right in our eyes. It's not about bitching and hassle.....it's just because we share our thoughts in a polite and correct way.

bmi (and me either) have fun to use the unit and we're very thankfull for the endless and great support from fractal audio, we just not always talk about it (see the explaination above).

Right again. I am an activ member of the most important thread of the Axe-Fx in France. i'm trying to prove how good is the gear. The gear is good the engineer is brillant but if you can change the firmware of the Axe you can't change the firmware of Cliff and he goes into paranoiac mode as fast as speedy gonzales. If he could read the french forum he will change perhaps his mind.(but not sure )

Here is what i get in private, so i think i'm not dreaming :

WOW
I have had the exact problems you are describing.
I'm using a Fryette 2/90/2 power amp ....

End of my long posts..i've tried to clarify my mind for everybody.

 

[FractalAudio]

I've said this before and I will only say it one more time:

If you lower the HF Resonance parameter then 9.03 is EXACTLY the same as 9.00. If you are hearing a difference it is in your head. The basic algorithm did NOT change. As an analogy Version 9.00 was doing, for example y = 3 * x. Version 9.03 does y = K * x where K is the HF Resonance. At the default values K = 6. If you lower HF Resonance to 2.5, K becomes 3 and 9.03 will sound EXACTLY the same as 9.00.

For Stef: The Brown amp model has not changed since Version 2.xx firmware. If you are hearing a difference it is in your head.

The power of suggestion is, well, powerful. Many times we think we hear things but in fact we don't.

 

[SML59]

Hey guys, it's time to make a brain update if you hear things that does not exist.
:arrow:

 

[Dutch]

guess you're grateful onebaldbloke didn't get his crack, then?
It'd be even more difficult to get "smooth".

Well, I never had the pleasure to see the crack-thread here! Muwahahaha..... :lol:

Nah.....I guess I have to buy another axe-fx. One for my 7.04 tones and the other for my new 9.xx experiments. I also found some great tones in 9.xx But I miss my Pacolation-Overdrive!
So what? Will save money to buy my 2nd axe-fx then! :mrgreen:

Brunt of it: OBK missed a certain kind of something that was most prevalent at the attack of the note. It was also named attack transient. He called it crack and does find it in most of his tube amps and can't get it in the Axe-FX. A bit like you seem to want less crack, he wants more.

I have no stake in the matter. Not taking sides. Just glad I don't have golden ears.

 

[Jay Mitchell]

The power of suggestion is, well, powerful. Many times we think we hear things but in fact we don't.

+1. And the folks who are most susceptible to the power of suggestion are usually the least receptive to suggestions to that effect....

 

[mba]

9.03 and first time that the power of suggestion catch me.
I will spend a couple of hours to make a reamp in 9.0 and the same in 9.03 with different values of HF and will post the result.

(no pb with the brown sound, try to put a compressor after your amp to simulate your THD Hotplate )

 

[stef herbuel]

The power of suggestion is, well, powerful. Many times we think we hear things but in fact we don't.

yes but it's for everyone , you should try with "placebo" update you could be surprised by lot of people saying that it's "much better".
:lol:

BTW did you reworked the JTM45 sim since 6.XX ?

 

[PacoCasanovasOld]

Hey guys, it's time to make a brain update if you hear things that does not exist.
:arrow:

So you must be the guy who needs to repeat all statements that Cliff said before in a different way? :lol: Happy welcome!

So you said it's my brain that I can't reach the tones I had in 7.04 with 9.xx (when you look closely, you'll see that I used "9.xx", the two "xx" stand for all versions of 9 )

Listen for yourself, go back a few pages and tell me what you're thinking! Any tipps and tricks are welcome. I also posted the patches on the board. Andrew Simon was such a nice guy and helped me with the patch on 9.xx ...he came close, closer than myself....but if I didn't found this nice new Bassman-Overdrive-Tone in 9.xx, I would go back to 7.04 and stay there for ever! :mrgreen:

Shit...... I need a 2nd Axe-Fx! :lol: :mrgreen:

I am an activ member of the most important thread of the Axe-Fx in France. i'm trying to prove how good is the gear.

Same here, I did such a thread for the swiss players almost two years ago...over 21'000 clicks, a hundert replies and some convinced players later, the thread is still alive!

http://www.gitarrenforum.eu/index.php?showtopic=1721

 

[dk_ace]

The power of suggestion is, well, powerful. Many times we think we hear things but in fact we don't.

+1. And the folks who are most susceptible to the power of suggestion are usually the least receptive to suggestions to that effect....

Too true. One of the main reasons I tired of doing consulting work for acoustics issues. Trying to convince someone they aren't really hearing something they've convinced themselves they're hearing is one of the most tiring arguments I've ever experienced. I'm exhausted just thinking about it...

D

 

[stef herbuel]

For Stef: The Brown amp model has not changed since Version 2.xx firmware. If you are hearing a difference it is in your head.
.

hhhmm come back to this if you don't mind : are you sure it's the same since version 2.xx ?

- release note firmware 9.01 :
"this firmware version may change the sound of your preset / reworked power amp sim more chimier etc .."

9.0 improved power amp modelling
7.17 : reworked depth and presemnce modelling algorythm
7.0 totally reworked power amp modelling

etc etc

do you mean all this wasn't for the "brown" amp ?

 

[PacoCasanovasOld]

Too true. One of the main reasons I tired of doing consulting work for acoustics issues. Trying to convince someone they aren't really hearing something they've convinced themselves they're hearing is one of the most tiring arguments I've ever experienced.

Well, and what tells you that those people who write here aren't really hearing something? I mean, you compared your situation with us here....

I posted some samples btw....

So please make a difference between your experience with your acoustic consulting work and the board members you can't tell who's is able or not by just reading their posts.....

Do you know what I do for living? Are you sure?

I'm exhausted just thinking about it...

[/quote]

Ok, then stop thinking or "just" talking about it! :lol: