Midi Controllers with Individual Displays per Button: Are they worth the added expens

Well, I have one of the first LF+jr+ - only 8 buttons but the LCDs are invaluable to me. Jeff, the creator is a great guy and a genius with this stuff. He and Cliff would have some great conversations I would bet.

Anyway, no issues with hardware. It is built very well.

I mean. I love the FAS support\products needless to say and if they had LCDs I would be right on it.

Also the buttons do "everything" the rjm stuff does from what I read - I also have 4 externals for Exp pedals or whatever I want.

RJM is way too pricey for me-my LF+jr+ cost $599. They do come in and out of stock- but tough to pin down.

Just my 2 cents :)
I would like more buttons but it works for me.
 
So, it sounds like both FAMC and RJM users are happy with their devices and both groups wouldn't want to go back. Good enough for me, I'm convinced that I should get a model with displays.

My understanding is that FAMC was first to market with the LF+ and then RJM followed with a model with larger displays, but equally as large price tag. In terms of functionality (And I could have the complete wrong end of the stick here as I have very little experience with MIDI in general and zero with foot controllers) I see the LF+ and MMGT as being pretty comparable. Without understanding everything in the FAMC X-Series Q&A I'm just going to assume that the X-16 is an improvement due to FAMC learning from their first generation product. The biggest feature for me would be the large full graphic displays, I really want a picture of Devil with a pitchfork for my heavy sound and an Angel with a harp for my clean.

My use case sounds like it would be exactly the same as Johan's, so as long as the X-16 can do that, I think I've got my answer. I'm going to get one of them.
 
According to the FAMC forum on Feb. 24:

COMPATIBILITY: We decided to allow the X-Series to work with LF+ Series programming. We are now adding all of the LF+ programming commands into the X-Series. The X-Series Editor is being upgraded with a "export/import" platform to share programming where possible. Clearly many features of the X-Series platform will not be available on the LF+ platform, however, the X-Series will import ALL of the LF+ Series programming per our current plans. We will begin sales as soon as this set of functionality is completed.

It's been a month and a half since that post. If that was the last piece of software they were writing for the X-series, I couldn't see it taking much longer. Actually, if that was the only thing left to complete I would think it would have been out already.
 
Kingjimmi said:
So, it sounds like both FAMC and RJM users are happy with their devices and both groups wouldn't want to go back. Good enough for me, I'm convinced that I should get a model with displays.

My understanding is that FAMC was first to market with the LF+ and then RJM followed with a model with larger displays, but equally as large price tag. In terms of functionality (And I could have the complete wrong end of the stick here as I have very little experience with MIDI in general and zero with foot controllers) I see the LF+ and MMGT as being pretty comparable. Without understanding everything in the FAMC X-Series Q&A I'm just going to assume that the X-16 is an improvement due to FAMC learning from their first generation product. The biggest feature for me would be the large full graphic displays, I really want a picture of Devil with a pitchfork for my heavy sound and an Angel with a harp for my clean.

My use case sounds like it would be exactly the same as Johan's, so as long as the X-16 can do that, I think I've got my answer. I'm going to get one of them.
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What I did at great length before deciding was to play with the editors. I downloaded both the MMGT and FAMC editor. After a little while it was clear to me that the MMGT way of doing things was way more inline with how I wanted things to work. I could not find an easy with FAMC to do the equivalent of local pages and that’s what sealed it for me in the end. There was also a lot more crashes with the FAMC that further cemented my choice. I would recommend that you do the same, imagine how you want to work and download both editors and see how close they can get to your ideal scenario and pick from there. I would also post a couple of questions on each of the forums and assess the responsiveness of the respective developers.
 
Downloaded manuals and editors for both the FAMC and RJM, great suggestion. If I'm reading them correctly both controllers should integrate with the AFX with a simple syncing procedure, after which they shold operate pretty much like the MFC-101 with presets, bank controls, and IA buttons populated from the AFX. If this is true, then that would be awesome as it would allow me to start working with zero programming needed and add additional programming if and when needed.

If this is the case then my workflow would be:
1. Build preset in Axe Edit
2. Tweak preset with RAC12
3. Sync preset with foot controller (Does a sync need to be performed everytime a preset is changed? Or do changes ripple through from Axe Edit to the foot controller automatically?)
4. Repeat 1-4 until I have my presets
----Optional step------
5. Any additional foot controller programming (Mostly thinking songlists)

Reality check: Does the above make sense?

Another case of YMMV, but I actually preferred the FAMC editor. The most important thing for me was the FAMC's ability to just type in programmatically each step you wanted the controller to perform. It even has a "shorthand" english to midi command filter. Not sure how well it would work in practice, but seems like a good idea.

Note: Tried downloading the MFC editor to compare it to the FAMC and RJM, but it cost $25??? This was really surprising to me considering the abundance of FW updates and added features that come with them for the AFX. What happened here?
 
With the MMGT, I went through and synced the preset names. It basically walks through all presets and in my case I have the Factory Presets Bank A loaded as Bank B, so preset 129 is 59 Bassman. After this sync, the MMGT knows all preset names. The controller will also update the name automatically so if I would change preset 129 from 59 Bassman to say Friedman BE, when I step on 129, it will take a second and then Friedman BE will show up. Unless you’re doing a big preset restructure, you would not need to sync preset names again.


In terms of your steps above. Preset tweaking does not affect the foot controller unless you switch out blocks (remove the Chorus and replace with a Tremolo or similar) in which case you may have to update the foot controller to make sure that you have a Tremolo button and not a Chorus button.


If you find the FAMC structure better then that will obviously tell you that this would be the controller for you. Maybe things have changed and when I had a play it wasn’t really possible to name scenes per preset like I wanted to - select Presets in the top menu, select a preset in the list and the select to "Edit local buttons" and create a page with say Scene 1-4 named Intro, Verse, Lead, Lead+Delay, and enable block Drive 1 (named RAT), Drive 2 (named Klon), Phaser 1 (named Univibe) and Filter 1 (named +2dB). That's the sort of thing that the MMGT really excels at. Maybe there's a way with the FAMC but I didn't find an easy way to do that.
 
Kingjimmi said:
I've been looking at Midi Controllers for the AFX and have come to the conclusion in my mind that I would benefit the most from having a foot controller with displays over the individual buttons.
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I've had this incredibly absurd vision of a MIDI foot controller that would be modular. It/they would slave to a center module that would be used mainly to configure the function of the slaves as presets, or scenes. Each slave unit would snap into place alongside existing modules (in a semicircular, V, or straight-line pattern) and would have a single simple connection that daisy chains power and ethernet, both directions from the center-master. Each has a color display (about the size of a cell-phone) showing its currently programmed function. On the Master would be an up/down switch that increments/decrements through user defined scenes where every module is reconfigured to do something different.
Each module is identical in design. All are actually relatively small expression pedals (with a display above them) that when assigned as a switch function, would lock into the heel position and become touch sensitive. If assigned as an expression pedal, it becomes free to move heel-to-toe. The master could store hundreds of presets that has a larger display for programming and other realtime information, such as which song the preset belongs to, etc…criticism? Re-read the first 6 words of this thread.
 
I upgraded from a FAS MFC-101 Mark I to a LF+ PRO+ and could never go back to without displays. I personally like the layout of the LF+ Controllers over the Mastermind GT Controllers bc I like having more 1st row foot switches. The LF+ has 8 foot switches per row and the MMGT has 6 foot switches per row. The LF+ has 4 Expression Pedal ports or they can be used as 8 extra foot switches but the MMGT has 4 Expression Pedal ports AND 4 extra foot switches. My LF+ PRO+ is actually lighter than the FAS MFC-101.

I have a love hate relationship with FAMC. I love my PRO+ but FAMC's support has been horribly slow and unresponsive. My last issue took 4 weeks to resolve and the owner Jeff finally called me to help. Jeff has always been very professional and helpful but I feel bad he has such a bad support team bc he makes great products.

My LF+ PRO+ arrived with a display with a column of dead pixels but I didn't notice until I figured out how to sync all my Axe-Fx II preset names bc the default names didn't use the pixels. FAMC said they would refund me the shipping to return the defective PRO+ and repair it for free. They repaired my PRO+ and shipped it back to me in about a week but it took them over 2 months and many back and forth emails to refund me the return shipping.

The manual doesn't have good examples of how to use the advanced programming functions but if you just plan to use the LF+ to sync your Preset names and IA ON/OFF states then just follow my Tutorial: FAMC LF+ and FAS Axe-Fx II Real-Time Sync Tutorial http://forum.fractalaudio.com/other-midi-controllers/96262-famc-lf-fas-axe-fx-ii-tutorial.html

I've contacted RJM support a few times and they always responded quickly and also read and respond to their forum pretty quickly too.

If you're new to MIDI Foot Controller programming, you should get a Mastermind GT but if you don't mind a challenge, waiting a few weeks to get your questions answered and want to save some money, go with the LF+. Also, regarding my experience with FAMC and others I have read about, I wouldn't go with one of FAMC's new products bc if something goes wrong or you can't figure something out, you may end up waiting a while which can be very frustrating after spending so much money on one of their products.

I'm not trying to scare anyone away from purchasing a FAMC product bc they are great once you figure them out and I'm glad I have my LF+ PRO+ (until I can't figure something out again ;) )
 
I think the vision you see is already here Carlos. The LF+ allows you to daisy-chain multiple units together. One acts as the master while the rest are slaves. The LF+ differs only in form factor. The smallest is about the size of 4 stompboxes with 8 buttons. Also, the LF+ connect together with a cable rather than interlocking chasis.
 
@Kingjimmi

I have read and the RJM manual and having the famc Jr+ like I stated for many years-they are almost identical in functionality. But I too like the FAMC editor-it's fabulous.

Also, the famc forum is definitely lacking big time, but if you use the ticket support system you will get an answer pretty darn quick-I mean I don't know about you guys, but I am spoiled with FAS-the customer service and tech support

and "THIS" forum are just so valuable - everything else, everything falls short in the support department-in my experience anyway-and that's lots of years-

and I definitely agree with gotmetalboys statement above: and I quote: "Jeff has always been very professional and helpful but I feel bad he has such a bad support team bc he makes great products".

I am sure you can't go wrong with either product, but the $$$ difference IMHO is just not justified. Like I said MO
 
I went for the RJM MMGT16, I had MFC101 Mk3 and 3 expression pedals. With the features of the RJM I do much more now with only 2 pedals. The RJM is also much lighter than the MFC. Displays are a must have feature. Couldn't go back. You can write the first words of a chorus or verse on the corresponding display if you have hard time with lyrics!
The only thing I'm missing is FAS link, that's a killer feature. Midi cables and phantom power are not that great... Hey Ron, make a MMGT with FAS link! Yes, I'm dreaming...
 
sebastos08 said:
I have a reflection on it actually but I do not want the same thing as what is currently available on the market to meet the existing brands and models. Are there other features that would be interesting to add as part of a new style of footcontroler?
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Yes there are, in fact I´m quite surprised that no pedalboard manufacturer has come up with those features as they are simple, adaptable and powerful. Been thinking on/off of them probably for the last 15 years, and even have an idea of coding them up myself. But never got the time free to get started on it.
 
lp59 said:
I went for the RJM MMGT16, I had MFC101 Mk3 and 3 expression pedals. With the features of the RJM I do much more now with only 2 pedals. The RJM is also much lighter than the MFC. Displays are a must have feature. Couldn't go back. You can write the first words of a chorus or verse on the corresponding display if you have hard time with lyrics!
The only thing I'm missing is FAS link, that's a killer feature. Midi cables and phantom power are not that great... Hey Ron, make a MMGT with FAS link! Yes, I'm dreaming...
Click to expand...

Famc x16 will have a battery and wireless.
 
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