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Low Cut, High Cut

bishop5150

Fractal Fanatic
In my experience, I play two kinds of shows.

a) The sound crew doesn't know the band well. In these scenarios, they usually do nothing to the band inputs unless there is an issue. They really don't care if I low cut / high cut / eq or whatever. They assume the tone is what I like and move on. The focus is almost always the lead vocal and drums.

b) The sound crew knows the band well. In these cases, which are rare for me, there is more concern and communication about the guitar.
Thanks for the input brother. This is pretty much what I experience myself regarding the sound guys I run into. At home I'm trying to create my presets at gig volume on my CLR's for what I think will sound good going to FOH which includes low and high cuts in the cab block along the lines of what everyone has mentioned above regarding the cuts. I want it to sound good out front. As long as I can hear what I'm doing on stage I'm good.
 

brokenvail

Fractal Fanatic
My understanding was that many IR's were a blend of individual mics in different positions, in an attempt to capture different aspects of the sound of the speakers.
Many companies offer mixes, we have some mixes in our factory cabs as well but those are prob mixes of single mic IRs mixed together in something like cab lab. That for example is what ML does. They are not shooting a Multi mic IR
 

brokenvail

Fractal Fanatic
Thanks for the input brother. This is pretty much what I experience myself regarding the sound guys I run into. At home I'm trying to create my presets at gig volume on my CLR's for what I think will sound good going to FOH which includes low and high cuts in the cab block along the lines of what everyone has mentioned above regarding the cuts. I want it to sound good out front. As long as I can hear what I'm doing on stage I'm good.
I have found that when I sound good out front I usually sound good on stage. I have only had a handful of times where the FOH guy drastically did something to my tone and honestly they ruined it but other than those moments all I ever have is amazing experience and sound guys just raise my fader
 

Tahoebrian5

Fractal Fanatic
Thanks, I had considered that, but is it not fixed frequency & so a compromise in terms of accuracy, compared with the cab block's configurable filters, slope options, etc,?
Another option, you can modify your ir's with baked in hi/lo cuts cab lab. Could still be a bunch of work but it will save a block over the peq strategy
 

Eanna

Inspired
Another option, you can modify your ir's with baked in hi/lo cuts cab lab. Could still be a bunch of work but it will save a block over the peq strategy
Good idea...! You've got me thinking... if I could somehow automate the hi/low modification process for each cab (I've got a lot!) this could be a very viable workaround. i'm going to check out cab lab and see if it's possible to write some kind of macro for this...! Thanks ☺
 

dr bonkers

Fractal Fanatic
Vendor
As a recording engineer and ir producer, I always remember something a mentor of mine Bob Both (James Brown) said, "You can always cut later to fit something in a mix, but you can't put something back in if you have totally eliminated it." I always tried to preserve the tone of a player in tracking unless the player specifically told me he or she had problems getting a specific tone. Then decisions of how to shape it can be made in the mix when hearing all the parts together.

That's my same approach when producing ir's as there are so many variables with pickups, playing styles, strings, setups, instruments, and song arrangements, it's difficult to predict a "one size fits all" approach to cuts. In that case I historically preserve the given cabinet using the mics I have, give some ideas with mix ir's, and let the player or engineer make the specific taste calls.
 

Pllm

Inspired
Hi all,

I do like to analyze how people are doing their presets. In Yek presets (from which I learnt so much... thanks again!), I often see low/high cuts in the cab block for the out1 (FOH) but I don't remember the same EQing for OUT2. I see several explanations to this (if I remember correctly because I'm a bit tired!):

1°/ It's a possibility to keep a "full guitar sound" because from time to time, it's good to have it all (practicing...).
2°/ Out2 is for my personal sound on stage and I want the full sound there to feel the vibes.
3°/ The cut is made in the Global EQ of the Out2 and I don't see it. Na!

Any input?
 

FractalAudio

Administrator
Fractal Audio Systems
Moderator
As a recording engineer and ir producer, I always remember something a mentor of mine Bob Both (James Brown) said, "You can always cut later to fit something in a mix, but you can't put something back in if you have totally eliminated it." I always tried to preserve the tone of a player in tracking unless the player specifically told me he or she had problems getting a specific tone. Then decisions of how to shape it can be made in the mix when hearing all the parts together.

That's my same approach when producing ir's as there are so many variables with pickups, playing styles, strings, setups, instruments, and song arrangements, it's difficult to predict a "one size fits all" approach to cuts. In that case I historically preserve the given cabinet using the mics I have, give some ideas with mix ir's, and let the player or engineer make the specific taste calls.

Yup. My father was a carpenter. We were building a speaker enclosure together when I was a teenager. I asked him some stupid question. He pointed to all the tools hanging on the wall and said "do you see any tools over there for putting wood back on?".
 

unix-guy

Legend!
Yup. My father was a carpenter. We were building a speaker enclosure together when I was a teenager. I asked him some stupid question. He pointed to all the tools hanging on the wall and said "do you see any tools over there for putting wood back on?".
Being my natural smart ass self, I'd have probably pointed out the glue, staple gun, brad nailer, etc...:p:rolleyes:

But the analogy mostly holds!
 

DLC86

Fractal Fanatic
Good idea...! You've got me thinking... if I could somehow automate the hi/low modification process for each cab (I've got a lot!) this could be a very viable workaround. i'm going to check out cab lab and see if it's possible to write some kind of macro for this...! Thanks ☺
You can batch set a parameter in all the presets you want with fractool, I just did the same a few days ago ;-)
 

DLC86

Fractal Fanatic
You mean by using a stereo Cab Block with one side of the stereo IR in slot one and the other side in slot 2, with both IRs hard-panned?
I suppose that might work as long as you can break up your stereo IR into 2 mono files which should be trivial.

But generally speaking, actual stereo IRs are not possible to use with the Axe yet, unless I'm highly uninformed.
If the latter, then please inform me.
IIRC cab-lab wav2syx conversion tool automatically splits stereo wavs into 2 files
 

Hhuent

Experienced
Practice your scales you bunch o nerds!
Ha, just kidding! I had a long working day and needed to shout something, sorry...

Now, seriously - my low cut is around 120, my hi cut 6.5 kHz depending on the cab. I do this usually when alone in the rehearsal room and not during a rehearsal. Do you feel your overall guitar sound in a band mix would be even better when you cut it even more? Where would the sound man apply the cuts or EQs in a rock band mix?
 
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B:ASSMASTER

Experienced
Where would the sound man apply the cuts or EQs in a rock band mix?
60Hz to 140Hz 3rd order high-pass.
6kHz to 10kHz 1st or 2nd order low-pass.
1Q dip between 600Hz to 800Hz.
Maybe a wide dip between 2kHz to 4kHz to help vocals poke through.
Some EQ or even better a multi-band compressor to control the 70Hz to 250Hz range.
 

vangrieg

Fractal Fanatic
60Hz to 140Hz 3rd order high-pass.
6kHz to 10kHz 1st or 2nd order low-pass.
1Q dip between 600Hz to 800Hz.
Maybe a wide dip between 2kHz to 4kHz to help vocals poke through.
Some EQ or even better a multi-band compressor to control the 70Hz to 250Hz range.

Ah, those nasty sound men, they take the best out of my beautiful tone. And, just to think about it, for whom? Vocalists, those spoiled brats. And bassists... Well, they're bassists, we all know what that means.
 

dbun

Experienced
I generally cut at 100-120Hz in the cab block, but I'm keen to try the bass cut switch in the amp block. I've seen a few people recommend that method.
 

Wolfenstein98k

Power User
I generally cut at 100-120Hz in the cab block, but I'm keen to try the bass cut switch in the amp block. I've seen a few people recommend that method.
Different things. The Cab block cuts are a "general" tone refining, to help it fit in the band context. The Cut switch in the Amp is a filter which trims the bass prior to the amp's gain stages, much like an overdrive pedal might, resulting in a "better" distortion tone (but not that much actual low-end cut in terms of the band setting).

See Cliff's post on pre-gain EQ for a better understanding of the latter.

http://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/the-power-of-pre-eq.80951/
 
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