Less headroom on clean fenders?

AndyTNBD said:
Er... I know I'm new around here, but the first one has way more distortion than the second one.
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It really doesn't have "way more distortion"... It has a bit more but the character of the breakup and the overall tone is pretty much identical between the two clips.

You could easily reduce the breakup in the first clip by reducing the input trim in the block or just picking less hard.

Some of these complaints are really hair-splitters. These 6.0 tones are so in the ballpark it's almost silly.
 
javajunkie said:
It really isn't that hard to get a clean out of something like the doubleverb. Literally dialed in in under a minute.
I could make it ALOT better but just dry amp into a cab clean fender can easily be done.

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Perfect example.
And seriously, what is "headroom" anyway when you have so many tools and controls at your fingertips?
 
The actual amp has slightly more gain than the model at the same settings. This is due to the difference in taper between the amp and model. Log taper pots are all over the place. Typical tolerance is 20% (on a good day).
 
FractalAudio said:
Yup, and once again I lied. The first one is the real amp. LOL...
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I actually suspected that as I was listening! It's just the sort of thing I'd do if I wanted to prove the point that this is all subjective and people should just use their ears! lol!!

I don't have an AFXII yet, but even I know there are many ways to skin a cat - just get the clean tone you want by any means necessary and quit the complaining. imho.
 
FractalAudio said:
The actual amp has slightly more gain than the model at the same settings. This is due to the difference in taper between the amp and model. Log taper pots are all over the place. Typical tolerance is 20% (on a good day).
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Which amp? twin, bassman? what settings? An amp on 3 with all the tone controls on 10 would have more gain & distortion than one with all the controls on 5 right? Just trying to get a handle on exactly what is in the clip you posted so I can see if I get the same results at home. Thanks
 
javajunkie said:
It really isn't that hard to get a clean out of something like the doubleverb. Literally dialed in in under a minute.
I could make it ALOT better but just dry amp into a cab clean fender can easily be done.

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That sounds arpeggiated & pretty lightly picked. Try spanking some funk & see it it stays clean!
 
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notalemming said:
Which amp? twin, bassman? what settings? An amp on 3 with all the tone controls on 10 would have more gain & distortion than one with all the controls on 5 right? Just trying to get a handle on exactly what is in the clip you posted so I can see if I get the same results at home. Thanks
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That's a Deluxe Reverb (and the Deluxe Verb model) with everything at noon. The MV on the model is at 9.0. Everything else at defaults.

The guitar is s Suhr Modern.

I'd do a clip with my Twin Reverb but I hurt my back and there's no way I'm lugging that damn thing in here until I get better. Same goes for the 59 Bassman.
 
My first 5 presets are all a Twin with increasing levels of BB pre...my #1 is very clean and sounds great with my EMG SA single coils. Obviously the knob tapers were changed to reflect the real amp...not a big deal, I just reduced my gain level and I'm back to normal. My longtime friend and HEAVY Fender Twin user back in the day Jerry Brightman (Buck Owens, Hee Haw) was very impressed when I showed him the V6 Fender Twin sounds.

If you want "crystal clear clean" couldn't you just go with the JC-120?

Come to think of it, my "crystal clear clean" sound is the 65 Bassman, and it sounds fabulous and doesn't break up at all!

But what do I know? LOL
 
FractalAudio said:
That's a Deluxe Reverb (and the Deluxe Verb model) with everything at noon. The MV on the model is at 9.0. Everything else at defaults.

The guitar is s Suhr Modern.

I'd do a clip with my Twin Reverb but I hurt my back and there's no way I'm lugging that damn thing in here until I get better. Same goes for the 59 Bassman.
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Thanks Cliff! I hear you on the back issue as I have had my share of hurt backs over the years lugging gear around. Hope your back gets better soon as I would love to hear the clip with the twin as that is the one I am having the most difficulty with. Thanks again!
 
notalemming said:
That sounds arpeggiated & pretty lightly picked. Try spanking some funk & see it it stays clean!
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'Spanky' Funk tones are heavily compressed to tape (and likely before the amp as well) and that would preserve the cleans by reducing the dynamics.

You can't expect raw amps (or amp models) to do certain things without providing the proper signal chain. Especially classic Fenders or an amp as sensitive to dynamics as a Bassman.
 
wezx said:
My first 5 presets are all a Twin with increasing levels of BB pre...my #1 is very clean and sounds great with my EMG SA single coils. Obviously the knob tapers were changed to reflect the real amp...not a big deal, I just reduced my gain level and I'm back to normal. My longtime friend and HEAVY Fender Twin user back in the day Jerry Brightman (Buck Owens, Hee Haw) was very impressed when I showed him the V6 Fender Twin sounds.

If you want "crystal clear clean" couldn't you just go with the JC-120?

Come to think of it, my "crystal clear clean" sound is the 65 Bassman, and it sounds fabulous and doesn't break up at all!

But what do I know? LOL
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The JC 120 sounds totally different. I do have a nice patch with that amp, kind of a Mike Stern chorused sound but not a substitute for a twin or bassman. I actually got a great crystal clean sound out of the Princetone of all things but I have to go in under the hood & do some major work to get there including changing the tonestack to the blackface. I also got a pretty nice one with the Plexi tonestack. It's not impossible to get something close to what I had before but it's WAY more work than it ever was. I have never had so much trouble getting a twin to clean up!
 
notalemming said:
That sounds arpeggiated & pretty lightly picked. Try spanking son funk & see it it stays clean!
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Not lightly picked (and with humbuckers) but sure he is hammerring away funk chords (way heavier than I would in any playing situation) and completely dry (I wouldn't use this as funk patch - I would add compression/eq/etc - just showing it is pretty clean - it would be MUCH cleaner w/ compression):

 
kevorkian said:
'Spanky' Funk tones are heavily compressed to tape (and likely before the amp as well) and that would preserve the cleans by reducing the dynamics.

You can't expect raw amps (or amp models) to do certain things without providing the proper signal chain. Especially classic Fenders or an amp as sensitive to dynamics as a Bassman.
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I got those tones for years with just a 73 twin or a 65 bassman & a guitar. period. nothing else except an occasional wah wah. It's in the touch, not the compression. So did many of the other guitarists I played with in the 70s. Nobody could afford much else even if something practical was available. No one was hauling around LA 2As or 1176s or Fairchilds!
 
notalemming said:
I got those tones for years with just a 73 twin or a 65 bassman & a guitar. period. nothing else except an occasional wah wah. It's in the touch, not the compression. So did many of the other guitarists I played with in the 70s. Nobody could afford much else even if something practical was available. No one was hauling around LA 2As or 1176s or Fairchilds!
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Your picking hand is perfectly capable of being your 'compressor' but that means you have a light and even attack when strumming (and a light to medium pick).

You implied that Sean should wail away on some 'spanky' funk chords and that the increased attack of doing so would distort the amp.

You are right... It would... But you can't have it both ways now.

If you know how to control a vintage fender then you would have no issue playing parts below the breakup threshold.

If you like to dig in more, then use a compressor on the guitar, just like every great funk guitar recording that has existed since the 60s.
 
kevorkian said:
Your picking hand is perfectly capable of being your 'compressor' but that means you have a light and even attack when strumming (and a light to medium pick).

You implied that Sean should wail away on some 'spanky' funk chords and that the increased attack of doing so would distort the amp.

You are right... It would... But you can't have it both ways now.

If you know how to control a vintage fender then you would have no issue playing parts below the breakup threshold.

If you like to dig in more, then use a compressor on the guitar, just like every great funk guitar recording that has existed since the 60s.
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But it's not a light attack at all & hence the problem with the Fender sims breaking up so easily. I use medium Fender teardrop picks & play pretty aggressively when doing that style. I've broken way more high E strings over the years playing rhythm than lead LOL! But you are right about the hands being the compressor & being contestant all though that does not mean limited dynamics that you get when you are using too much compression. (the electronic kind) Also, I am not talking about recordings, I am talking about my real life live experiences with real Fender amps & the Axe since V1.V6 has made all the Fender sims, especially the bassman & twin, ultra sensitive & way to easily distorted IMHO.
 
Dunno what to say here.
FWIW- I find the Fenders smooth and clean on my humbucker guitars.
I have to turn the Drive up quite a bit (past 5) with MV at 9 to get real break up or any grind.
I play with a pretty heavy pick attack on single notes, less so on chords.

My pickups on guitars in my signature are standard range PAF to slightly hotter bridge pickups.

FWIW.
 
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