Less headroom on clean fenders?

You have two Bassman models. One is a 5F6-A and the other an AB165. Do you realize that the first Marshalls were basically Bassman copies???!!!

A Bassman is not typical Fender. They are more like Marshalls than your typical Fender.
 
FractalAudio said:
You have two Bassman models. One is a 5F6-A and the other an AB165. Do you realize that the first Marshalls were basically Bassman copies???!!!

A Bassman is not typical Fender. They are more like Marshalls than your typical Fender.
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+1

But there are over 10 different circuits IIRC

The Fender Amp Field Guide

Any yeah the bassman model is known for grind... like the 5E3 tweed deluxe circuit... hint hint :)
 
FractalAudio said:
You have two Bassman models. One is a 5F6-A and the other an AB165. Do you realize that the first Marshalls were basically Bassman copies???!!!

A Bassman is not typical Fender. They are more like Marshalls than your typical Fender.
Click to expand...

It doesn't matter if it's more 'marshall', its the tone I'm talking about. My point is I have played and heard a bassman multiple times, a bassman from 1966 which is the exact circuit from the 1965 one which is in the axe. There is a much more gain in the Fractal Audio Axe FX II V6 Firmware than there was in the V5. I'm not trying to be rude but I'm just stating a fact that they have much more gain. It'd be different if it was one user saying this but there are multiple people having the issue of dialing in a 'pristine fender clean tone' out of the amps. I'm only speaking on the bassman as I've actually used that one.
 
IMO,

This is one of those case where everyone is right :)

Yes, the model in the AxeFx II matches the amp from which it came.

Yes, some folks's memory of amps they have tried don't match the amp that was modeled.

Yes, the taper of the controls has changed so settings from before V6 on the drive will be much more gain than before.

Richard
 
Sean Ashe said:
It doesn't matter if it's more 'marshall', its the tone I'm talking about. My point is I have played and heard a bassman multiple times, a bassman from 1966 which is the exact circuit from the 1965 one which is in the axe. There is a much more gain in the Fractal Audio Axe FX II V6 Firmware than there was in the V5. I'm not trying to be rude but I'm just stating a fact that they have much more gain. It'd be different if it was one user saying this but there are multiple people having the issue of dialing in a 'pristine fender clean tone' out of the amps. I'm only speaking on the bassman as I've actually used that one.
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There were three versions of the Bassman in that era, the AA864, AA165, and AB165. In 1965-1966 all three were in production so you can't say that a Bassman = a Bassman. In version 6 the model was changed AND MATCHED to a Bassman with the AB165 circuit. Yes, it has a lot more gain. That's not a bad thing.

If you want me to do a clip and prove it I will but I have better things to do with my time.
 
FractalAudio said:
You have two Bassman models. One is a 5F6-A and the other an AB165. Do you realize that the first Marshalls were basically Bassman copies???!!!

A Bassman is not typical Fender. They are more like Marshalls than your typical Fender.
Click to expand...

No, I am not an amp or circuit expert & have never owned a Marshall. All the ones I briefly played though over the years I didn't like, especially for cleans. Maybe just never spent enough time with them or played through the right one as I like many of the Marshall sims for both clean & dirty in the Axe. I am mainly a bass player & played bass (as well as guitar) through both the '65 Bassman I had & a couple of the '70s Twins I had, ran all over 3 & got very little to no distortion with a '65 Jazz Bass at small to medium club volumes. There's no way I could do that with any of the Fender sims.
 
FractalAudio said:
There were three versions of the Bassman in that era, the AA864, AA165, and AB165. In 1965-1966 all three were in production so you can't say that a Bassman = a Bassman. In version 6 the model was changed AND MATCHED to a Bassman with the AB165 circuit. Yes, it has a lot more gain. That's not a bad thing.

If you want me to do a clip and prove it I will but I have better things to do with my time.
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Okay so the model WAS changed, thank you for clarifying.

Also as this is the Axe FX Discussion, I don't think this warrants rudeness towards customers such as "I have better things to do with my time". We're all artists here who are trying to get the sound we have in our head, out through our speakers. I payed your company $3000 dollars over the last few months and no I don't regret it, but I expect when I come to the forum for your product in hopes of discussing it I wouldn't get talked down to just because I'm not an engineer. But with the new firmware it takes getting used to, hence the 'discussion'. I'm going to get off of the fractal board for a few days while things cool down because it's apparent you're aggravated with a few of the complaints you're getting from people about the new firmware, and people are upset because they have to relearn how to dial in tones.

Thank you
 
FractalAudio said:
There were three versions of the Bassman in that era, the AA864, AA165, and AB165. In 1965-1966 all three were in production so you can't say that a Bassman = a Bassman. In version 6 the model was changed AND MATCHED to a Bassman with the AB165 circuit. Yes, it has a lot more gain. That's not a bad thing.

If you want me to do a clip and prove it I will but I have better things to do with my time.
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Not saying it doesn't sound like this particular Bassman you have as I have no idea how that one sounds. It seems there are getting to be fewer options for good clean sounds & somewhat repetitive for medium to hi gain Marshallesque sounds IMHO. I use everything from pristine clean to nuclear meltdown & the pristine clean is now much harder to come by, at least the Fender version I was able to get since V1 & it's not just the Bassman, it's all of them.
 
Sean Ashe said:
Okay so the model WAS changed, thank you for clarifying.

Also as this is the Axe FX Discussion, I don't think this warrants rudeness towards customers such as "I have better things to do with my time".
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He is not being rude. He is literally telling the truth.
 
notalemming said:
Not saying it doesn't sound like this particular Bassman you have as I have no idea how that one sounds. It seems there are getting to be fewer options for good clean sounds & somewhat repetitive for medium to hi gain Marshallesque sounds IMHO. I use everything from pristine clean to nuclear meltdown & the pristine clean is now much harder to come by, at least the Fender version I was able to get since V1 & it's not just the Bassman, it's all of them.
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Wishlist from you then?
 
notalemming said:
Not saying it doesn't sound like this particular Bassman you have as I have no idea how that one sounds. It seems there are getting to be fewer options for good clean sounds & somewhat repetitive for medium to hi gain Marshallesque sounds IMHO. I use everything from pristine clean to nuclear meltdown & the pristine clean is now much harder to come by, at least the Fender version I was able to get since V1 & it's not just the Bassman, it's all of them.
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If you need less gain turn down the Input Trim on the advanced page. FWIW, the only Fender that has more gain than 5.07 is the '65 Bassman.
 
bammbamm said:
He is not being rude. He is literally telling the truth.
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Agree. It's a win to get the direct answer from the guy who put the pieces together. I don't want Cliff running down every tone inquiry that comes in - he's just explaining how the model was created. And it sounds exact in the example clip he posted. Telling someone it doesn't sound "right" when they have the amp next to them and know better is tedious. I think we can agree that it's changed in v6 and that it may not be what you expected to hear, but there are a range of Bassman models as Cliff explained. You're hearing a model of a particular one. It may not be your favorite. Perhaps another flavor of Fender will make its way into the Axe at some point you may like better. But the JTM is good for cleans as Java pointed out. Sometimes you have to ignore the label that's attached to the model and just listen and find one you like regardless of its name, as the tone can vary widely depending on its context of settings and cabs.

It may be a valid point that the Axe could use more clean models in its arsenal. I'd push for that instead of claiming the Bassman is wrong.
 
kevorkian said:
Fenders are a 'dirty' clean amp.
They are designed to be used with singlecoils and to have some tube breakup within the clean tone.
That gain what gives them such a great sound and vibe and it's also exactly the reason why many jazz players who want a pristine clean tone DON'T use them.
If you want a super pristine, high-headroom, clean sound with a real Fender amp you need to reduce the gain way down and control your input level like crazy.
The Axe Fx is now behaving much more like an actual Fender amp, IMO.
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+1 My experience also, and ive played through a lot of fenders!
 
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