Legacy Vs. Dyna-Cabs

Roby Rocks said:
I have conducted numerous tests, trying various combinations. I meticulously used the mic preamp and equalizer. I spent entire nights adjusting the speaker section and much more... In the end, I have come to the conclusion that I prefer (much more) the IRs (legacy cab). I use my own personal IRs, and with those, I get the sound I'm looking for... my sound. No matter how much time I spend on a Duna-cab, to my ear, they all sound too harsh, thin, and lacking body. I prefer my IRs.
Click to expand...
This 100%. I can make them sound good on studio monitors and headphones, but they don’t scale over PA speakers at higher volumes. Thin, harsh and crispy. No punch. Would love some insight on how to give them more oomf for higher gain tones.

Also noticed much of the Gift of Tone series presets all use IRs not dyna cabs.
 
Replica said:
Maximum distance (just under 9.5") is still fairly close to the speaker. When I'm micing real cabs, I'll pull mics with directional pickup as far as 14" from the speaker.
Click to expand...
In cab-lab it's a bit more: 31cm/12.2"
 
I like them both but I’m primarily using my York Audio IR‘s.
I’m still not able to get that sound from Dyna Cabs so it’s good to have both, there is a warmth or range that I could not get yet from DC but I’m shure that only about my incompetence.
 
Joshua_L said:
I’m still experimenting with dynacabs.

I mainly use Marshall models, so I choose the 1960tv.
I really like the « clean and alive » tones out of it but don’t know why I’m missing some warms mid. They sound scooped to me.

Anyone can advise me a preamp setting to counterbalance that?
Click to expand...
They sound scooped due to the Mic Preamp used on the captures. I’ve personally found that to revive the mids I like to blend two mics and position one further out than you might be used to. I blend a Dynamic and a Ribbon putting one inner-mid to mid cone and the other around cap edge. This brings back the mids the Neve scoops out but keeps the openness and life I feel the Neve adds to the capture. A lot of IRs you are used to were probably captured with an API (I believe most of the FAS captured Legacy IRs were captured with an API which is more mid focused).

Here is my version of the four channels I'd use of a JVM as a preset. Try both Channel A and Channel B no the cab block. Channel A places the Ribbon over the cone and Channel B places the Dynamic over the cone. I think both of these work with my guitars. I play primarily humbuckers (PRS 85/15, PRS 58/15LT, and PRS 58/15LT+).
 

Attachments

  • Marshall Madness.syx
    24.1 KB · Views: 28
millman said:
They sound scooped due to the Mic Preamp used on the captures. I’ve personally found that to revive the mids I like to blend two mics and position one further out than you might be used to. I blend a Dynamic and a Ribbon putting one inner-mid to mid cone and the other around cap edge. This brings back the mids the Neve scoops out but keeps the openness and life I feel the Neve adds to the capture. A lot of IRs you are used to were probably captured with an API (I believe most of the FAS captured Legacy IRs were captured with an API which is more mid focused).

Here is my version of the four channels I'd use of a JVM as a preset. Try both Channel A and Channel B no the cab block. Channel A places the Ribbon over the cone and Channel B places the Dynamic over the cone. I think both of these work with my guitars. I play primarily humbuckers (PRS 85/15, PRS 58/15LT, and PRS 58/15LT+).
Click to expand...
The Cab block Preamp also has a 3-band EQ ;)
 
unix-guy said:
The Cab block Preamp also has a 3-band EQ ;)
Click to expand...
Yeah, it’s usually my last resort. I typically find I can get everything I need if I start with Amp EQ, Mic placement, blend levels, individual cab cuts, and the cuts in the Cab block Preamp. I have used that EQ on occasion to taste if necessary. 🙂
 
millman said:
They sound scooped due to the Mic Preamp used on the captures. I’ve personally found that to revive the mids I like to blend two mics and position one further out than you might be used to. I blend a Dynamic and a Ribbon putting one inner-mid to mid cone and the other around cap edge. This brings back the mids the Neve scoops out but keeps the openness and life I feel the Neve adds to the capture. A lot of IRs you are used to were probably captured with an API (I believe most of the FAS captured Legacy IRs were captured with an API which is more mid focused).

Here is my version of the four channels I'd use of a JVM as a preset. Try both Channel A and Channel B no the cab block. Channel A places the Ribbon over the cone and Channel B places the Dynamic over the cone. I think both of these work with my guitars. I play primarily humbuckers (PRS 85/15, PRS 58/15LT, and PRS 58/15LT+).
Click to expand...
Thanks a lot for the explanations! Gonna try it tomorrow morning.
unix-guy said:
The Cab block Preamp also has a 3-band EQ ;)
Click to expand...
Yep but I wish those names meant something…
If for example dynacabs are made with Neve Wich preamp do I use to get back some warmth ? Having to test all the preamp is painful really.
 
millman said:
They sound scooped due to the Mic Preamp used on the captures. I’ve personally found that to revive the mids I like to blend two mics and position one further out than you might be used to. I blend a Dynamic and a Ribbon putting one inner-mid to mid cone and the other around cap edge. This brings back the mids the Neve scoops out but keeps the openness and life I feel the Neve adds to the capture. A lot of IRs you are used to were probably captured with an API (I believe most of the FAS captured Legacy IRs were captured with an API which is more mid focused).

Here is my version of the four channels I'd use of a JVM as a preset. Try both Channel A and Channel B no the cab block. Channel A places the Ribbon over the cone and Channel B places the Dynamic over the cone. I think both of these work with my guitars. I play primarily humbuckers (PRS 85/15, PRS 58/15LT, and PRS 58/15LT+).
Click to expand...
Hm. Neve preamps tend to be described as “warm and fat”. That’s my (limited) experience with them as well.

Sound is in the ears of the beholder of course. But the last thing I would expect a Neve preamp to be described as is “bright and scooped”.
 
E-Sound said:
Hm. Neve preamps tend to be described as “warm and fat”. That’s my (limited) experience with them as well.

Sound is in the ears of the beholder of course. But the last thing I would expect a Neve preamp to be described as is “bright and scooped”.
Click to expand...
Straight from the man himself. And my ears hear a more scooped voicing in the DynaCabs.

Post in thread 'Axe-Fx III Firmware 22.00 Public Beta #2 (Beta 7)'
https://forum.fractalaudio.com/thre...2-00-public-beta-2-beta-7.193588/post-2409867
 
Joshua_L said:
Thanks a lot for the explanations! Gonna try it tomorrow morning.

Yep but I wish those names meant something…
If for example dynacabs are made with Neve Wich preamp do I use to get back some warmth ? Having to test all the preamp is painful really.
Click to expand...
But that's not what I was proposing. If you feel the DynaCabs lack mids, then use the EQ to bump mids. It doesn't all require mic placement.

Also, if they were captured with a Neve then why would you want more Neve? That's already baked in.

Pick one you like and experiment. The differences are fairly subtle - at least to my ear.
 
millman said:
Straight from the man himself. And my ears hear a more scooped voicing in the DynaCabs.

Post in thread 'Axe-Fx III Firmware 22.00 Public Beta #2 (Beta 7)'
https://forum.fractalaudio.com/thre...2-00-public-beta-2-beta-7.193588/post-2409867
Click to expand...
but the man never said "scouped voicing", and the comment actually made is only in the context of mic pre which is only one of many tonal variables (ie mic(s), mic(s) position, speaker, cab size, cab type...). Man, at some point I'd like to hear a substantiated example comparison for these blanket statements - I'm not hearing any constraints on how bright I can make a DC sound compared to same non
 
sprint said:
but the man never said "scouped voicing", and the comment made is only in the context mic pre which is only one of many tonal variables (ie mic(s), mic(s) position, speaker, cab size, cab type...). Man, at some point I'd like to hear a substantiated example of these blanket statements - I'm not hearing any constraints on how bright I can make a DC sound compared to same non
Click to expand...
True enough. He said the API has more mids... So possible the Neve is more flat and the API has a mid bump?

Although comparing the 2 in that case, the Neve would sound scooped in comparison (or the API would sound boosted).
 
I struggled with Dyna Cabs at first too. Partly because my ears were used to using the same couple Ownhammer IRs for years. Another thing, was the interface on Dyna Cab is a bit different (top down view), and uses cm not inches. Once I stopped trying to dial it in with my eyes, and used my ears to place the mic I was much happier. We're like peas & carrots now LOL.
 
sprint said:
but the man never said "scouped voicing", and the comment actually made is only in the context of mic pre which is only one of many tonal variables (ie mic(s), mic(s) position, speaker, cab size, cab type...). Man, at some point I'd like to hear a substantiated example comparison for these blanket statements - I'm not hearing any constraints on how bright I can make a DC sound compared to same non
Click to expand...
You’re correct. I interpreted the lack of mids to be “scooped”. That is how it sounded to me. If it means the mids are less present it has the same effect to my perception. I felt that way before I saw the post. When I saw his post that was my “Ah ha!” moment. English is my native language yet it can still be hard. 😅
 
unix-guy said:
True enough. He said the API has more mids... So possible the Neve is more flat and the API has a mid bump?

Although comparing the 2 in that case, the Neve would sound scooped in comparison (or the API would sound boosted).
Click to expand...
k, but wrt this type of comment often referring to DCs overall: mic pre is only one of many ingredients. If someone could post a sonic comparison of the same tone (same amp, same SIC ...) into two IRs of the same cab/speaker/mic/mic
position but with different mic pre, then maybe i'd be less skeptical - if it sounds scouped to me, I'm equating it to something?, but what exactly? Without some controlled rigorous comparison, such statements are just meaningless imo since the "difference" perceived could be coming from many diff sources
 
Last edited:
sprint said:
k, but wrt this type of comment often referring to DCs overall: mic pre is only one of many ingredients. If someone could post a sonic comparison of the same tone (same amp, same SIC ...) into two IRs of the same cab/speaker/mic/mic
position but with different mic pre, then maybe i'd be less skeptical - if it sounds scouped to me, I'm equating it to something?, but what exactly? Without
some controlled rigorous comparison, such statements are just meaningless imo since the "difference" percieved could be coming from many diff sources
Click to expand...
That is a fair argument. I don’t even know the exact mic position of every IR that has resonated with me personally.

It was most important for me to illustrate how I was able to reintroduce the mids I felt were lacking on that particular cabinet. I think there is a range a person might attempt to play in regarding position before they give up and assume the sound they are going for is not achievable.

I was there with DynaCabs and the Marshall Models myself in the early public betas. I gave up and thought the DynaCabs were overly bright and harsh and lacking in essential mids until I trained myself to drop my preconceptions and use my ears and try everything out.

I also stopped trying to recreate existing IRs that I liked. I could never quite match them regardless of mic positions and believe me it wasn’t for lack of trying. I decided that was silliness. If I wanted the sound of that IR I should just use that IR. That’s part of where my considerations on the mic preamp used for the capture came from. Bolstered by Cliff’s post.

Once I just started over from scratch I finally got it. I’m hoping my suggestions and sample preset can do the same for others who may be stuck with the same preconceptions.
 
Last edited:
millman said:
That is a fair argument. I don’t even know the exact mic position of every IR that has resonated with me personally.

It was most important for me to illustrate how I was able to reintroduce the mids I felt were lacking on that particular cabinet. I think there is a range a person might attempt to play in regarding position before they give up and assume the sound they are going for is not achievable.

I was there with DynaCabs and the Marshall Models myself in the early public betas. I gave up and thought the DynaCabs were overly bright and harsh and lacking in essential mids until I trained myself to drop my preconceptions and use my ears and try everything out.

I also stopped trying to recreate existing IRs that I liked. I could never quite match them regardless of mic positions and believe me it wasn’t for lack of trying. I decided that was silliness. If I wanted the sound of that IR I should just use that IR. That’s part of where my considerations on the mic preamp used for the capture came from. Bolstered by Cliff’s post.

Once I just started over from scratch I finally got it. I’m hoping my suggestions and sample preset can do the same for others who may be stuck with the same preconceptions.
Click to expand...
fair enough, sounds like a thorough process for yourself. I'd just hate for people to be staying away from DCs because they derive from posted comments, that there's some sort of inherent shortcoming.

One thing to be aware of when 1st trying DCs is that, by default, DC will pull in it's own authentic SIC in the amp block which is not likely the same as the amp's usual SIC default - so a user that creates a new preset with Amp + Cab and toggles back and forth between Legacy and DC for a similar cab may well be hearing SIC differences as much or more than any other difference since it's not very obvious that the SIC is changing unless looking at the amp block speaker page.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom