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Lag on the AX8 when switching presets.

chris

Legend!
In this particular scenario you're using two different amps but with scenes? Practically speaking as configuration and the intricacies of the unit, i have no idea what you did. That's why things will make more sense when i have the unit.
hmm... the specific example i was showing at 51:50 was the same amp, just turning on/off the drive pedal.

to do it, i changed from Scene 1 to Scene 2. the Amp type did NOT change from X to Y from S1 to S2, only the Drive pedal was turning on and off.

i could have also just pressed the "Drive on/off" button and it would have accomplished the same thing.

but a Scene allows you to press multiple "on/off" buttons at the same time. make sense? so you could turn On Drive and Delay for a lead sound, then turn them both off by switching Scenes.
 
hmm... the specific example i was showing at 51:50 was the same amp, just turning on/off the drive pedal.

to do it, i changed from Scene 1 to Scene 2. the Amp type did NOT change from X to Y from S1 to S2, only the Drive pedal was turning on and off.

i could have also just pressed the "Drive on/off" button and it would have accomplished the same thing.

but a Scene allows you to press multiple "on/off" buttons at the same time. make sense? so you could turn On Drive and Delay for a lead sound, then turn them both off by switching Scenes.
Yeah i get you! The drive pedal sounds great and there should be plenty to choose from, so; good!

Therefore with a great amp as a base you have your clean, and crunch/lead coming from pedals, switchable through scenes, without lag.

For X to Y amp change, we just hit the preset button a little sooner. Done!
 
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Sounds like you may want to go with an AxeII if you really want the sounds of two different amps with no audible gap when switching. But it won't give you three. I actually like the Mesa Mark II C+ model in the AX8 a lot. I ordered a new one from Mesa many years ago and they delivered a Mark III which was their new replacement. I hated that amp....

I haven't tried loading three amps in one Helix preset, but I should be able to load a Deluxe, an amp with good crunch and I actually prefer a 2204 to a Plexi. Sacrilege, I know. But then how much room for effects, I don't know.
Hummm, i was really hoping AxeII would deliver three separate amps; but that's what "two cab blocks" is about, or the "X to Y thing"?
Anyway say i use Mark V which has a great clean, then it's crunch channel, then 2nd amp being plexi. It's already good. Or a fender clean on one amp and bogner shiva 20th anniversary crunch and lead. Another of my favorite setups.

Room for effects is not a concern for me. I use reverb and delay mostly, both can be mixed for clean and lead. That's it for me!
 
mmmmm let me think about that.................NO!!!
Racks like Bricasti are dedicated to reverb. Trust me they sound better, more pristine.
Is the difference big? The most discerning ear will favor bricasti. For delay and other effects eventide or lexicon's latest win. Because they have been in business for a long time and the processor which focuses on the effects alone should be faster than AxeII or Ax8.
 
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NeoSound

Fractal Fanatic
Racks like Bricasti are dedicated to reverb. Trust me they sound better, more pristine.
Is the difference big? The most discerning ear will favor bricasti. For delay and other effects eventide or lexicon's latest win. Because they have been in business for a long time and the processor which focuses on the effects alone should be faster than AxeII or Ax8.

They don't use faster CPUs. eventides algorithms haven't been updated in a decade, just repackaged for a different market
 

chris

Legend!
can we all just agree that things we state are our own opinions and don't affect the opinion of others by default?! i'm so tired of having to qualify every single statement here in fear of other people calling me out for "but that statement isn't 100% true due to opinion..."

it's becoming a real pain to participate here.
 
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NeoSound

Fractal Fanatic
The only basis for saying that one does it better are the resulting sound and feel. Different people believe that different emulations of a tube amp sound and/or feel best. Therefore, one cannot say definitively that one does it better than another.
Liking how something sounds or feels doesn't make it accurate. yes some are more accurate, and yes, since they are all someone's best interpretation one is more accurate than the others. Are any perfect? ... No

Everyone seems to have crowned tube amps as the ultimate sound (100 year old tech. Btw) but yet they are constantly being altered/tweaked and we color their sound with various electronic devices.
 

atquinn

Forum Addict

O.k., so I did some comparisons of the Fractal Audio AX8 and the Atomic Amplifire in terms of switching gaps. The first 17 or so seconds are me switching presets on the AX8 as I hold a chord. Seems to me the times are as bad as what people are complaining about on the Helix, but feel free to throw the audio in some software and number crunch if you want. From 18-26 seconds I am on a single AX8 preset and switching only the Amp block from X to Y. Switching seems a little faster here and if you look at the waveform, you can kind of see the audio ramping back up after the switch-over unlike preset switching where it is abrupt. From 27 on I am switching through, 7 (IIRC) Amplifire presets. As you can hear, switching is nigh-seamless.

And yes, the tones are crap :D

And no, the neither the AX8 nor the Amplifire were connected to a computer during the recording (they audio was going into my Yamaha AG03 and then to my laptop via USB).
-
Austin
 
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dkenin

Inspired

O.k., so I did some comparisons of the Fractal Audio AX8 and the Atomic Amplifire in terms of switching gaps. The first 15 or so seconds are me switching presets on the AX8 as I hold a chord. Seems to me the times are as bad as what people are complaining about on the Helix, but feel free to throw the audio in some software and number crunch if you want. The first 17 seconds are me switching through 5 AX8 presets where I'm holding a chord during the switchover. From 18-26 seconds I am on a single AX8 preset and switching only the Amp block from X to Y. Switching seems a little faster here and if you look at the waveform, you can kind of see the audio ramping back up after the switch-over unlike preset switching where it is abrupt. From 27 on I am switching through, 7 (IIRC) Amplifire presets. As you can hear, switching is nigh-seamless.

And yes, the tones are crap :D

And no, the neither the AX8 nor the Amplifire were connected to a computer during the recording (they audio was going into my Yamaha AG03 and then to my laptop via USB).
-
Austin
That sounds about what I'm getting too
 

chris

Legend!
i would guess that the Amplifire can switch faster because it's not doing as many processes while switching?
 

atquinn

Forum Addict
i would guess that the Amplifire can switch faster because it's not doing as many processes while switching?
As I posted on TGP:
Well, I've talked about this before, but the Amplifire seems to have been produced with different goals in mind. I believe it has the same processors as the AX8 and Helix, but it is hardly the "everything and the kitchen sink) device that those are. Perhaps you need to give up all that cool stuff to get the switching down. I don't know enough to say. But I'd guess that the vast majority of people, if forced to choose one, would go with the device that could do more stuff.
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Austin
So, speaking from a place of almost-pure ignorance, I would agree with you :D

It was certainly not an apples-and-oranges comparison from that standpoint. It was more of a switching test between "the types of presets I build/use on the AX8 because I can" vs "the types of presets I build/use on the Amplifire". I'm just playing at home so I don't really care about switching times. And the AX8 can do so much stuff that I like cramming it to the gills (more in terms of having options to do many different things than build lush sounds where a billion things are on at once). One of the presets I switched through on the AX8 was the Van Halen preset that is at http://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/cool-van-halen-preset-from-youtube-tutorials.108247/
You couldn't even build a comparable preset like that on the Amplifire because it has Phaser and Flanger blocks and on the Amplifire there is only one Mod block.

So it's possible that if I tried to replicate the presets I build on the Amplifire on the AX8 the switching times would go down (although the Amp X/Y switching demo suggests that it would still not be as seamless as the Amplifire). But for me, that would be a waste of the AX8's power.
-
Austin
 

FractalAudio

Administrator
Fractal Audio Systems
Moderator
With any device that features flexible routing you have to mute, switch then unmute. This takes time. The reason is that if you don't do this then you'll end up with sound from one of the blocks that may have moved to a different position possible causing a loud pop or other artifact. For example, if you have a simple amp->cab->delay preset then you switch to a preset that has delay->amp->cab the sound from the delay will get amplified during the switch so you have to mute everything, wait for the signals to decay, rearrange the blocks, then unmute.

Products with a fixed routing can switch faster since they don't have to worry about rearranging blocks.

The Axe-Fx amp modeling is also far more intricate and complex than other products and this requires muting the amp modeling for a short time to allow the bias points to settle.
 

maxdown

Fractal Fanatic
Wonder if it's therefore possible to have a 'fixed routing' soft option mode on the AxeFX/AX8/FX8 where you build a grid template based on your fav blocks in a set position and when you assign that grid to be 'fixed' the device would only allow that template to be used in any subsequent preset switching? Like a 'global' preset sort of thing.

It wouldn't fix the 'bias point settle time' but it would reduce the need for provisioning a state for re-arranging of blocks

This ol' DSP engineering is a piece of piss :)
 

Sixstring

Axe-Master
I'm guessing here as I don't have my Ax8 yet but aside from using a drive block can't you use use the boost function in the amp block as a way to change from a crunch to a lead tone? I used this feature a lot with the Axe and it worked great no dropouts and less CPU usage.
 
Meh. I don't know what kind of music you need to play to absolutely need zero lag when changing presets. Seems capricious to me. A good player will make the song happen regardless and not cry about "spillover milk" :)
Oh boy someone else found one of my flaws. Capricious indeed; for the good and bad... :)

I don't need zero lag; i need unnoticeable lag by the public when notes are vibrating. And as i said, this is for some scenarios.
If i'm pleased by AX8 pedals i'm good. Otherwise for X to Y switching; AxeII has this covered!
I would even like 3 amp switching without lag. How ambitious is that :D

@FractalAudio. Hope this will be possible, in a foreseeable future.
 
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I'm guessing here as I don't have my Ax8 yet but aside from using a drive block can't you use use the boost function in the amp block as a way to change from a crunch to a lead tone? I used this feature a lot with the Axe and it worked great no dropouts and less CPU usage.
I don't know. I'l use whatever sounds better.
 

dbun

Veteran
The smoothest way is to use scene controllers and vary the amp gain. The only drawback is you have to stay on the same base amp tone.
 
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