Interested in an Axe but ...

[psychotic memories]

I play guitar and bass. The way I am looking at it, I could have guitar in input 1 and bass in input 2, feed the left outputs to the Matrix inputs (output 1 to input a and output 2 to input b) and the right outputs to my sound card for recording.

I have a few questions before I put down the 4100- Euro. (Axe-Fx II XL+ 2600- / MFC-101 MK III Foot Controller 800- / MATRIX GT1000FX-2u 700- ).

• Has the looper been improved? My current Ditto looper pedal has a 5 minute "loop time" while according to the Wiki the Axe-FX has a 60 second "loop time".
  
• Is there a dedicated send / receive in the works? The current layout eats up 2 1/4 jacks that could be plugged into the DAW for example.
  
• Why isn't there a XLR output for OUTPUT 2?
  
• Is the MFC-101 MK III Foot Controller able to be programmed so a bank could control the DAW by MIDI while not making changes to the Axe-FX unit itself?
  
• Why isn't the MFC-Edit - Editor for the MFC-101 included with the MFC-101 MK III Foot Controller? The Axe-Edit doesn't cost anything.
  
• Has the bass guitar support improved? I've been doing some reading and according to a lot of replies, bass players are a nuisance when it comes to asking for more than the Ampeg SVT.

 

[TakaraGold]

Whenever you get to use one, you’ll forget about those doubts. You’re kinda complaining before even trying!
-Looper hasn’t been improved (but the rest has been improved so much that it doesn’t matter that much and the ditto is affordable enough)
-usb, xlr, and 1/4 outs are more than enough, you’ll see. Usb alone lets you do tons of stuff
-No XLR on out2, given out1 has them it’s kinda fair. Still a lot of choices.
-MFC edit was created a very little while ago, it didn’t exist before and it was created for users that demanded it. So it’s not free. Such as Cablab (great investment if you ask me). I’ve never used axedit that much and the MFC is very intuitive and easy to program per se so the editor is not mandatory.
-Bass is very very covered. As you can dive in tons of amps and fx that while not being created for bass exactly, they gove you great results and cover tons of music styles. Darkglass preamp sim will be added soon also, so metal/rock/modern bass players will be mindblown again.

Don’t overthink it too much. If you do then it probably isn’t for you. It’s well worth the price.

 

[psychotic memories]

I'll have to look more into recording through the USB. Do you know what the USB speeds are? (USB 1.x, 2.0, 3.0, 3.1, 3.2)

I am able to understand the "it's kinda fair" argument when using only guitar but like I said, I will be using 2 different instruments and want a "set it and forget it" when it comes to home use.

I work with computers so I am able to find a few minutes here and there to open up a program on my laptop, make some tweaks from my notes here and there. That is why I am drawn to software.

I'm not into the whole distorted bass so it gets lost in the mix with the guitars sound.

Limited budget when it comes to gear. I want to spend wisely to avoid confrontations with the wife. She may have a billion and one different shoes and purses and need more, anything more than 1 guitar is too much.

 

[TakaraGold]

“I am able to understand the "it's kinda fair" argument when using only guitar but like I said, I will be using 2 different instruments and want a "set it and forget it" when it comes to home use.”



It’s still made for one instrument. It has the horsepower to run two fxchains and to give you two instruments at the time, but the culprit here is the musician and his rig/ease of use; not saving up on gear for two musicians. I use midi equipped guitars, bass, piezo equipped guitars and acoustics, recording and reamping. A dual setup means hacking each chain by half (talking about power capabilities), it might be good for teaching and a very basic rig alternative for two musicians. But the Axe if used right, it has no comparison whatsoever.
Amp models, compressors, parametric or graphic eqs, filters, you have tons of choices for tailoring amazing bass tones.
I don’t remember the usb info, but does it matter? You can reamp and use all the usb flexibility, use spidf, or go with xlrs or 1/4.

 

[electronpirate]

One big 'wish list', and not a question about how it sounds.

You're going to have to live with what you have here. There is some more bass support on the way, but this was never designed as a bass rig (added because FAS really cares about it's user base). You can live without an XLR in output 2. It takes money to develop software for the MFC and it was done at popular request for those who were more than willing to pay for it. You receive a huge amount of free software and upgrades as it is, complaining that it's not 'all free' is a tough pill. I've bought but never used MFC Edit...it's not necessary unless you want it for the pretty pictures on your PC. If you want more functionality out of a looper than 60 seconds...lots of other outboards that will take care of that.

You buy this for how it SOUNDS. It's the most functional and flexible unit out there. It can do almost everything, but not necessarily at the same time.

Good luck and welcome to the club.

R

 

[Rex]

Welcome to the forum, @psychotic memories .

• Has the looper been improved? My current Ditto looper pedal has a 5 minute "loop time" while according to the Wiki the Axe-FX has a 60 second "loop time".

What you've read is still current.

• Is the MFC-101 MK III Foot Controller able to be programmed so a bank could control the DAW by MIDI while not making changes to the Axe-FX unit itself?

Yes.

• Why isn't the MFC-Edit - Editor for the MFC-101 included with the MFC-101 MK III Foot Controller? The Axe-Edit doesn't cost anything.

• Is there a dedicated send / receive in the works? The current layout eats up 2 1/4 jacks that could be plugged into the DAW for exampe.

• Why isn't there a XLR output for OUTPUT 2?

Will the answers to these questions really affect your purchase decision?

 

[psychotic memories]

“I am able to understand the "it's kinda fair" argument when using only guitar but like I said, I will be using 2 different instruments and want a "set it and forget it" when it comes to home use.”



It’s still made for one instrument. It has the horsepower to run two fxchains and to give you two instruments at the time, but the culprit here is the musician and his rig/ease of use; not saving up on gear for two musicians. I use midi equipped guitars, bass, piezo equipped guitars and acoustics, recording and reamping. A dual setup means hacking each chain by half (talking about power capabilities), it might be good for teaching and a very basic rig alternative for two musicians. But the Axe if used right, it has no comparison whatsoever.
Amp models, compressors, parametric or graphic eqs, filters, you have tons of choices for tailoring amazing bass tones.
I don’t remember the usb info, but does it matter? You can reamp and use all the usb flexibility, use spidf, or go with xlrs or 1/4.

I'm not able to play guitar and bass at the same time. The cost of the Axe-FX is greater than the cost of a guitar head, bass head, a couple of cabinets, simulation software and have change left over for effects.

One big 'wish list', and not a question about how it sounds.

You're going to have to live with what you have here. There is some more bass support on the way, but this was never designed as a bass rig (added because FAS really cares about it's user base). You can live without an XLR in output 2. It takes money to develop software for the MFC and it was done at popular request for those who were more than willing to pay for it. You receive a huge amount of free software and upgrades as it is, complaining that it's not 'all free' is a tough pill. I've bought but never used MFC Edit...it's not necessary unless you want it for the pretty pictures on your PC. If you want more functionality out of a looper than 60 seconds...lots of other outboards that will take care of that.

You buy this for how it SOUNDS. It's the most functional and flexible unit out there. It can do almost everything, but not necessarily at the same time.

Good luck and welcome to the club.

R

From a lot of threads I've read, more bass support has been on the way for years. I'm not complaining that it is not free, I find it unusual in this day and age especially given the price point of the MFC. I've sent back plenty of gear because it didn't sound anywhere near what the reviews and claimed it did.

 

[Perdikament]

I'm not able to play guitar and bass at the same time. The cost of the Axe-FX is greater than the cost of a guitar head, bass head, a couple of cabinets, simulation software and have change left over for effects.



From a lot of threads I've read, more bass support has been on the way for years. I'm not complaining that it is not free, I find it unusual in this day and age especially given the price point of the MFC. I've sent back plenty of gear because it didn't sound anywhere near what the reviews and claimed it did.

It’s certainly not more expensive than 1/2 of the Heads & Amps it models.

Reviews are one thing, I agree with that, however there are more than enough recordings of every genera for you to hear for yourself available all over the Internet to be able to make a very well informed assessment of what the AxeFX capabilities are.

 

[musicman0001]

You can not compare Axe FX with price of an amp as it encloses so much more. However you can compare to other modellers i.e. Kemper or Helix etc..
I agree 4100 euros is a lot. On the other hand you get loads of flexibility. And you dont have to buy mfc or matrix. Other options are available. Or second hand market.

There are several pro's and cons in comparison. There are loads of users here that have kemper or helix together with axe fx.

I myself choose AXE FX as besides the capabilities of amp modelling it has great mix of pedals included. For me it replaced all needs for any amp or pedals. Will it replace all? Depend, maybe not for you. Some would love more looper or better pitch and still use those pedals.

All I can say that for sound the machine is a beast and with Quantum 8.02 public and 9beta it delivers very authentic sound and behaviour. Also the pedals are really high end. It also has indepth ways of tweaking possibilities.

Best buy ever for me and lost interest in my search with amps and pedals. Allways found sound or close enough which i never could with my own amps or pedals.

Is it expensive. Euh its not cheap. Especially if you buy also matrix and mfc. 4100 is steap. Will it replace everything: for me it did, like many others. You: maybe not fully for some stuff. Those you can easily adept and include in your rig.

Good luck with your decisions! Almost sure you will end up with axe fx one day

 

[clarky]

It's the most functional and flexible unit out there. It can do almost everything, but not necessarily at the same time.

to add... it'll do a whole lot at the same time...
I tried recreating one of my basic presets in a Helix and it couldn't handle it..
in fact, it didn't get close..

 

[notalemming]

to add... it'll do a whole lot at the same time...
I tried recreating one of my basic presets in a Helix and it couldn't handle it..
in fact, it didn't get close..

But I bet the screen looked real pretty while it was choking on that preset LOL!

 

[psychotic memories]

The Helix is that it is a new product with room for improvement. After watching a couple of reviews about it most people say that the biggest improvement is adding 3rd party IRs. One of the downsides to the Helix Rack vs the Axe-FX is the number of inputs. The 4 send / receive jacks and being half of the cost of the Axe-FX leaves plenty of money left over for IRs.

The Kemper is another option even though it is just a modelling amp. This makes it closer to having a bunch of amps that sound like what touring musicians use in the studio according to the gear rundowns of guitarists that use them.

I did watch the latest gear rundown of Metallica and saw that they use 2 Axe-FX (not including the spare) for each guitarist. The reason behind it was that one was used for dirty and one for clean. The time between switching presets was too long for the band according to both techs. I am not in a situation where companies are falling over themselves to put gear in my hands so affording 2 Axe-FX units just to switch between clean and dirty doesn't make much sense.

The other thing I realize is that the actual hardware improvements haven't been that great. According to the main site, the only improvement was "brighter sharper display, and an even lower noise floor" was from the XL to the XL Plus. Before that was increased memory and a couple of hardware jack upgrades. Unless the next release is a complete redesign to keep up with the new products that have hit the market in the last couple of years, the Axe-FX will be like Harley Davidson: Cutting edge at the time when it came out but hasn't improved since.

I went back about 5 years reading threads about bass and in that time, nothing has changed as far as support. Maybe an additional amp or two but that is about it. Add to that with every firmware release has been a disappointment after the long build up, it seems like money is best spent elsewhere.

 

[TG3K]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here, but I'm guessing nothing, including the Axe-Fx, will make you completely happy. You're all wrapped up in features and visuals, and apparently have no attention on the actual sound the unit produces.

 

[Rex]

...the actual hardware improvements haven't been that great. According to the main site, the only improvement was "brighter sharper display, and an even lower noise floor" was from the XL to the XL Plus. Before that was increased memory and a couple of hardware jack upgrades. Unless the next release is a complete redesign to keep up with the new products that have hit the market in the last couple of years, the Axe-FX will be like Harley Davidson: Cutting edge at the time when it came out but hasn't improved since.

Maybe the user interface isn't as slick as some, but the hardware is still at the cutting edge. A/D and D/A converters that still out-spec the competition. Look at the release notes to see all the improvements over just the last year. Check the archives for past release notes that show twenty major releases and sixty minor releases over the last six years.

Your Harley analogy doesn't hold up. There are lots of bikes that outperform Harleys. There's no modeler that outperforms Fractal stuff.

Your judging criteria seem to be centered on bells and whistles, and not on actually getting the job done. When it comes to getting the job done, Fractal gear is still unbeaten.

 

[clarky]

But I bet the screen looked real pretty while it was choking on that preset LOL!

lmao...yes it did... and it was puking on what I was trying to get it to do...
the reasons being:
- not enough available CPU
- only chains, no grid
- reverb and delays do not have an input-trim [which I found to be a bit of a limitation]

to be fair and impartial though, the Helix is an excellent unit
but it's not got quite the muscle of the Axe-FX
it does however beat the Axe in one feature.. Helix Snapshots are better than Axe-FX scenes

either way.. my experiments with one determined that I cannot fit my little guitary world into it

EDIT: ahhh sorry guys for the tangent..
back on thread..

Axe-FX: you just line up all the control hoops and the unit will jump through em..
everyone talks about Axe tone.. well yeah.. it's absolutely stellar..
but the killer thing for me is the control stuff you can do with it..
and the grid..
very few people mention the grid.. personally I think the grid is the cornerstone of the whole unit..
nothing else out there has anything like it..
the grid opens up possibilities that simply cannot be done on the inside of any other unit..
the grid is a masterstroke.. pure and simple

 

[Paperjace]

I play guitar and bass. The way I am looking at it, I could have guitar in input 1 and bass in input 2, feed the left outputs to the Matrix inputs (output 1 to input a and output 2 to input b) and the right outputs to my sound card for recording.
You can do this, but with the sacrifice of not doing stereo sound. A band I was in a few years ago did something similar and it worked fine. I would keep Output 1 and 2 for separate purposes, though. I would not use Output 1L and Output 2L for one thing, and Output 1R and Output 2R for another.

I have a few questions before I put down the 4100- Euro. (Axe-Fx II XL+ 2600- / MFC-101 MK III Foot Controller 800- / MATRIX GT1000FX-2u 700- ).

• Has the looper been improved? My current Ditto looper pedal has a 5 minute "loop time" while according to the Wiki the Axe-FX has a 60 second "loop time" I think the looper time will always be what it is. The Axe FX is more of a tone machine than a loop station. You'll have to stick with the Ditto if 60 seconds isn't enough..
  
• Is there a dedicated send / receive in the works? The current layout eats up 2 1/4 jacks that could be plugged into the DAW for example. You can record over USB. Or use Input 1/Output 1 for recording into an interface and Input 2/Output 2 for the Send/Receive. If you were thinking of using the guitar and bass simultaneously (like mentioned above) with different outputs doing different things AND using the Send/Receive, that's not possible.
• Why isn't there a XLR output for OUTPUT 2? Not sure.
  
• Is the MFC-101 MK III Foot Controller able to be programmed so a bank could control the DAW by MIDI while not making changes to the Axe-FX unit itself? I believe so, yes. Each switch can be programmed to do a different MIDI channel. Have the Axe FX receive Channel 1, your DAW receive Channel 2. Config the switches of your choice to Channel 2 and they won't affect the Axe FX.
  
• Why isn't the MFC-Edit - Editor for the MFC-101 included with the MFC-101 MK III Foot Controller? The Axe-Edit doesn't cost anything. You really don't need it, honestly. If you're familiar with MIDI, the MFC-101 is super easy to navigate and configure.
  
• Has the bass guitar support improved? I've been doing some reading and according to a lot of replies, bass players are a nuisance when it comes to asking for more than the Ampeg SVT. I don't play bass so I haven't followed their bass amp models closely, but there are more models than the Ampeg SVT. They are adding the Dark Glass BK7 soon which is a very popular distortion pedal for metal bassists, so I'd say bassists aren't totally neglected.

 

[clarky]

I did watch the latest gear rundown of Metallica and saw that they use 2 Axe-FX (not including the spare) for each guitarist. The reason behind it was that one was used for dirty and one for clean. The time between switching presets was too long for the band according to both techs. I am not in a situation where companies are falling over themselves to put gear in my hands so affording 2 Axe-FX units just to switch between clean and dirty doesn't make much sense.

they really didn't need to do this..
if the guitar tech had used scenes to switch between dirty and clean the delay time is zero..
I think the tech had a tried and trusted means of switching between real amps and simply placed an Axe in each slot to replace them..
sure it works, but in my opinion, not the optimum approach..

in a single preset I run clean, riff and solo tones..
my transitions are seamless..

 

[dr bonkers]

I play guitar and bass. One of the sticking points that many bass players have is that there are only 7 amps that are labeled as bass amps and that none of the effects are labeled as bass effects.

The thing is most guitar amps and effects can be used with bass. It's just a matter of setting the rolloffs or wet/dry ratio of the effects to not wipe out the low end.

For the amps it's just a matter of mating them up with compatible sounding cab ir and they sound amazing.

Check out my YouTube channel. All the bass uses the Axe-FX II and don't use the bass amps, but instead use the guitar amps just to show people the possibilities.

The Helix sounds good and has a nifty interface. I will pick up one soon to use as my foot controller for the Fractal as I could not jive with the MFC. But if you listening with your ears and not your eyes, of the two units, the Fractal still has the edge in terms of depth, tweakability, and feel.

 

[Moke]

And don't forget about the 'Internal Controllers' and the 'Modifier' Edit options. These are huge in my world. There are so many things in my presets that I just can't do in the Helix?

 

[clarky]

And don't forget about the 'Internal Controllers' and the 'Modifier' Edit options. These are huge in my world. There are so many things in my presets that I just can't do in the Helix?

do you have a Helix?