Has anyone opened up their CLR or Q12/CF12 & can tell us what drivers are in there?

pdup said:
Matrix and Xitone uses (could be another brand, but it's a coaxial 12" woofer with a concentric 1" compression driver that uses the woofer-cone as the last part of the horn-loading) the Eminence Beta 12CX and crew-on ASD 1001 tweeter. Eminence makes the 3K5 cross-over PXB2 that works just fine.

The CLR is a different beast. As what I can see from the pictures on the net, the 12" woofer sits behind a 4-sided, conical, dampened "horn" which entrance covers part of the woofers diapraghm. This gives room for the HF compression driver and the constant-directivity horn just in front of the grille.
If I'm not wrong this "shapes" the bass and midrange from the woofer and makes an optimal transition to the HF-driver.

By no way underestimating Matrix or Xitone, the CLR is from my POV a very different loudspeaker with details I haven't seen before in this segment.
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Can't wait to try these suckers out ! :)
 
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I'm right there with you Hugomack. I'm a tinkerer, learner, destroyer, repairer, put-back-together'er. I want to know what I'm spending my hard earned coins on. We all know how great the CLRs sound per the reviews here and elsewhere, I'm also on the CLR wait list and can't wait for my invite. It's more of a informative question to ask about the components on what's going into the gear we are purchasing. Not being facetious, but it'd be crudely similar to going to buy a Mustang and not look under the hood at the engine, right?

I rip new amps, cabinets, guitars, pedals, etc all apart as soon as I receive them, new or used. Mostly just to learn the facts and design because that interests me being an engineer by trade. With used gear, I almost certainly don't wait any longer than 24 hours to take it all the way down to check components and wiring to ensure the seller was not trying to "pull a fast one" on an unassuming buyer.
 
woodnwire85 said:
I'm right there with you Hugomack. I'm a tinkerer, learner, destroyer, repairer, put-back-together'er. I want to know what I'm spending my hard earned coins on. We all know how great the CLRs sound per the reviews here and elsewhere, I'm also on the CLR wait list and can't wait for my invite. It's more of a informative question to ask about the components on what's going into the gear we are purchasing. Not being facetious, but it'd be crudely similar to going to buy a Mustang and not look under the hood at the engine, right?

I rip new amps, cabinets, guitars, pedals, etc all apart as soon as I receive them, new or used. Mostly just to learn the facts and design because that interests me being an engineer by trade. With used gear, I almost certainly don't wait any longer than 24 hours to take it all the way down to check components and wiring to ensure the seller was not trying to "pull a fast one" on an unassuming buyer.
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I Googled the CLR and saw pictures of a severely mishandled cab by the carrier. The plastic-horn had been ripped off the four mounting-posts (these things happen to me most dureable products). And it was those pictures that made me aware of, what a very different cab the CLR is. And, please, my background is in studio-monitoring and not guitarist-ditto. But frfr is a new border where digital meets the analog scene. And there's much to learn. Fractal, Mission, Atomic, Mission or whatever brand-name.
 
The sum of te parts in any well designed FR cab is only half of the deal. All of the technical research that Jay has placed into the design IMHO is the other half. I have tried building FR boxes but I don't have the technical background or equipment to measure the results. they might sound ok but what does it look like in a graph form?

Personally speaking the cost involved in a DIY box is not really that much better than buying something that has already been done the "right way". So unless you have the means to do so it's an exercise in frustration and wast of time and effort to even try to accomplish something like the CLR, not knock'n anyone wanting to try it, just offering up what I have found in my personal experience.
 
Sixstring said:
The sum of te parts in any well designed FR cab is only half of the deal. All of the technical research that Jay has placed into the design IMHO is the other half. I have tried building FR boxes but I don't have the technical background or equipment to measure the results. they might sound ok but what does it look like in a graph form?

Personally speaking the cost involved in a DIY box is not really that much better than buying something that has already been done the "right way". So unless you have the means to do so it's an exercise in frustration and wast of time and effort to even try to accomplish something like the CLR, not knock'n anyone wanting to try it, just offering up what I have found in my personal experience.
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Although I have built frfr PA systems, and some great wedges, plus more notably for this forum a "extension box" enabling Thiele EVM cabs to use cab sim convincingly, this thread is not rip-off corner for CLRs!! Those 1.33bn Chinese are probably doing doing that right now.

CLRs, the Matrix cab and wedge and the Xitone? 1x12 and tweeter which uses the GM50 seem to be vying for the same space each with their own supporters. Just trying to see what these are all about... When I get my CLR, I'll try to remain objective - promise!

There are high end monitors that use what I believe are the principles the CLR uses. Hence asking the question!!
 
Hugomack said:
Xitone are straight-up with telling us what's in their 1x12 FRFR offering. As this info doesn't seem to be on the Atomic or Matrix sites, could anybody who's opened their's up tell us exactly what drivers, cross-overs and amps are inside please?

(There've been a few spats in the comparison/review/"when do I get my CLR" threads, so it would be good general knowledge for the rest of us to know more precisely what these coveted products actually are.)
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hold on......Let me get my chainsaw :)
 
pdup said:
I Googled the CLR and saw pictures of a severely mishandled cab by the carrier. The plastic-horn had been ripped off the four mounting-posts (these things happen to me most dureable products).
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I figure that was my cab you saw -- I had a thread with pics about it in this forum. It is (was, in that case) a Celestion driver. I have a pic of the model number somewhere around here as well. Didn't see the back of the 12", though.

Something else to keep in mind when talking about Matrix/XiTone/CLR components is that the CLR has DSP. That throws an entire new spin on the standard cab/components/crossover paradigm since it can be used to radically change the 'natural' sound of the system.

TT
 
It would not be hard for some people to reverse engineer a CLR cab (or most anything). Most manufacturers give you all the specs online or in the manual.
 
Hugomack said:
So if "...most published technical details are bunk...", how should we regard "most people's impressions"....?

But that's not the point.

I like building PA's (because I can't afford to buy them, and I like making things sound good and loud), so I'm interested. The specs of the components are the start, to which you build the cab, then as you say, at the end everything else you've done conspires to give the end result.

BUt I'm not looking for an argument, just a few facts.

"Knowing what drivers are in a speaker are arguably among the least informative technical detail you could want." Yes I'd agree - with the "arguable" bit :).
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reminds me of this scenario that didnt happen:

health inspector: excuse me, what spices have you put in this chicken?
chef: i can't tell you, that's my secret ingredient!
HI: i'm afraid you must divulge, i'm a health inspector, I can make things difficult
chef: fine... its cumin
HI: cheers
chef: so, how long until the next inspection
HI: tomorrow
chef: what? why so soon
HI: oh that wasn't an inspection, I just wanted to know your secret so i can cook this style chicken for myself. its much cheaper that way!
chef: ............... f*** you
 
Hugomack said:
this thread is not rip-off corner for CLRs!! CLRs, the Matrix cab and wedge and the Xitone? 1x12 and tweeter which uses the GM50 seem to be vying for the same space each with their own supporters. Just trying to see what these are all about... When I get my CLR, I'll try to remain objective - promise!

There are high end monitors that use what I believe are the principles the CLR uses. Hence asking the question!!
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Sorry, I wasn't implying that you were wanting to build a CLR specifically just offering up my experiences in the event that someone else wanted to try and tackel a CLR type project using like components. As has been posted the DSP in the active boxes I'm guessing is what makes up the other half of what makes these boxes so special and that I can bet no one is going to be able to just buy that off the shelf. How that translates to the Passive version of the CLR I don't know and I haven't read anything that explains it as of yet.
 
Tommy Tequila said:
Something else to keep in mind when talking about ...CLR components is that the CLR has DSP. That throws an entire new spin on the standard cab/components/crossover paradigm since it can be used to radically change the 'natural' sound of the system.
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IIRC, the un-powered CLR has the same system performance as the powered version in the free field.

I'm going to guess and say the powered CLR in free field mode, has no corrective DSP. I'm guessing the DSP is for Tilt and Backline modes.

Another guess, the things that make the CLR great are the choices for the LF and HF transducers, the physical design of the cabinets and the crossover.

With the powered versions of the CLR you get the added bonus of correctly matched amplifiers and the DSP for Tilt and Backline use.

Richard
 
audemia said:
reminds me of this scenario that didnt happen:

health inspector: excuse me, what spices have you put in this chicken?
chef: i can't tell you, that's my secret ingredient!
HI: i'm afraid you must divulge, i'm a health inspector, I can make things difficult
chef: fine... its cumin
HI: cheers
chef: so, how long until the next inspection
HI: tomorrow
chef: what? why so soon
HI: oh that wasn't an inspection, I just wanted to know your secret so i can cook this style chicken for myself. its much cheaper that way!
chef: ............... f*** you
Click to expand...

It could have been dog meat, but you're right, it was rude to ask. (Bizarre allegory though.)
 
Found these very helpful pics from Matrix, and some facts from Lightening Boy via eadgbe (or vice versa), in another thread (I shoudda found them earlier, but here they are in case they're helpful to anybody):

MatrixAmp said:
A couple of pictures for you :)

MKII-Shot1.jpg


MKII-Shot2.jpg


Best regards
Matt
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eadgbe said:
Back to topic.

The driver in the Matrix coaxial is the B&C HCX76. That will be a tough cookie to beat especially with the class A/B module from Matrix. So all components are EU made. Nice!

B&C 1

This is single 12" speaker with a clever horn/waveguide for the HF, selling in the USA for @ USD 600.

Re the CLR (with apologies to everyone who owns one or knows this already):

- from the manual:

"The Atomic CLR is a two-way coincident loudspeaker consisting of
a heavy-duty, horn-loaded 12” cone transducerforlow frequencies
and a high-output, 1”-exit compression driver with a 1.75” voice coil
driving a constant-directivity type horn for high frequencies. The
enclosure is constructed of 12-ply, void-free plywood throughout,
with internal structural details that serve both to form the low frequency
horn shape and to add substantial structural rigidity."

A review I read said the three-option DSP didn't seem to do very much - but I'd be interested in what real-world users think.

"Horn-loaded" in such a small enclosure is interesting: looks like a square baffle (waveguide?) over the top of the woofer; as is the "coincidence" - the horn looking like it's mounted over the top of the woofer.
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Hugomack said:
Found these very helpful pics from Matrix, and some facts from Lightening Boy via eadgbe (or vice versa), in another thread (I shoudda found them earlier, but here they are in case they're helpful to anybody):



eadgbe said:
Back to topic.

The driver in the Matrix coaxial is the B&C HCX76. That will be a tough cookie to beat especially with the class A/B module from Matrix. So all components are EU made. Nice!

B&C 1
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This picture is from a test-cab. the B&C OEM price is over the half of the final price of the Matrix. The B&C is very close to the inhouse produced Neo coax used in the double-priced RCF wedge. The OEM price on the B&C is 400 Dollars alone - that does not match the final price of the Matrix cab.
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SOrry pdup - I was editing my post and missed yours.

DOes that make the Matrix cab rather good value ?
 
Hugomack said:
SOrry pdup - I was editing my post and missed yours.

DOes that make the Matrix cab rather good value ?
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Hi Hugo,

One thing I have learned during years of DIY is, that we nearly allways go towards the most costly drivers. Thinking that they will give the best sound.
And then we stumple upon "the sound" from a speaker. And find out, that the drivers is 20% of the sound - and the rest is perfect understanding of Thiele-Small parameters, the right choice of the cross-over (which often makes 90% of a speakers qualiity) plus keeping in mind that you have to deal with a "market-price" that has to compete with others on the market.

I don't have a Matrix, Xitone or Atomic cab. I havent heard one of them. Has only stashed for the Axe, MFC and a GT1000FX sitting reliably here and monitored by a pair of small KRK's.

But, I know, that when Matrix, Xitone, Atomic or whatever releases a product - the mechanics is 20% - and hundreds of hours of R&D, several test-drivers etc. makes what DIY'ers just can't replicate.
 
I have tried to understand the whole frfr-scenario after getting the Axe. The guitar frequency band (talking six-string) is very narrow and resides from:
82.4 Hz. - E - open 6th string
659.2 Hz. - E - 12th fret on 1st string.

Taking the lowest note in perspecitve, that corresponds with a 5.1 surround-system where the sub-woofer handles everything else than the perceived instruments minus bass and sub-atomic synth-notes.

Aka: We don't need anything below 80Hz, making it easy to make a diminutive Thiele-Small vented cab like the new Matrix coming soon.

BUT, the high-end is different. Even if the guitar only goes to about 700 Hz. it's just the "note", and not the multitude of overtones that often decides if it's a Strat or a Les Paul. If it's Kinman, Seymour, single or hum. And that's where you choose sides. Also in your personal perception infront of a cab.
 
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