Double tracking-effect on live guitar?

Well, let's break it down and see how far we can get with the AFII.

Ideally you'll run two parallel lines, with a separate AMP block on each line. Different AMP models and possibly different CAB blocks, though you could combine in to one CAB block that's in stereo mode.

One line, let's call it Guitarist 1, will be your normal line. The other line we'll call Guitarist 2 and this is the line we'll apply "things" to to make it sound like it's another person playing.

All of this stuff is supersecretsauce. Don't share it with anyone, okay? Shhhh. Someone might make it in a pedal and then we'll all be poor and out of business. :(

;)

slightly randomize the pick attack
What is "pick attack"? It's a physical action. DSPs can't change physical actions so they're not randomizing pick attack, right? Instead they're likely slightly adjusting the EQ in the upper frequency range. I'd put a PEQ in the G2 line before the AMP block and focus on the edge and definition frequency ranges. You can either attach the step controller with lots of steps, set randomly, to those frequencies and have them change slightly, randomly, over time for some fairly small range of motion. Or you could attach the envelope or ADSR controllers. ORRRRRR you could just tweak them down a bit, statically and see what that sounds like, right? Start simple?

You can modify both the Q and the dB amount...have it get narrower as it cuts deeper.

And you can try cutting as well as boosting. Maybe you'd like Guitarist 2 to have a sharper attack?

For frequency range reference I give you this handy chart:

main_chart.jpg


and dynamics
What does "dynamics" mean, really? That's a marketing word, right? We need to figure out what that means in non-marketing speak. Maybe it's the lower frequencies? Same as above, try PEQ to cut or boost the punch and warmth and whack bands.

digitally creating those slight imperfections that double tracked guitars offer.
We might want to add a micro-delay. That's imperfection, right? I'd do this with a chorus block, 100% wet, and I'd set it to change the delay amount with the block's LFO ever so slightly.

The MIMIQ is not just taking your signal, doubling it and putting it out of phase w/your other one, or just widening your stereo field. Think of it as a computer that is slightly imperfectly playing along with you. All in all this pedal is the most ergonomic, efficient and practical way to achieve a double tracked effect and I vote this pedal in COMBO with axe-fx all the way, regardless of any successful chain the axe-fx can create.
Well, computers aren't humans and they definitely aren't magic. They have a transfer function working in the time and frequency domains on a signal, same as the AFII, to do what it does. We just have to work out what it's doing and recreate a similar transfer function using the blocks we have at hand in the AFII.
 
I've tried every double-tracking effect trick people have imagined on this forum, and most are not good (unless you want to sound like the Van Halen Carnal Knowledge or Balance albums)

This pedal may be b.s... but so far, the online demos sound better than any other option I've heard out there. Including the Keeley 30ms pedal. Recreating the TC Mimiq accurately with the Axe may be a nightmare...
 
I've tried every double-tracking effect trick people have imagined on this forum, and most are not good (unless you want to sound like the Van Halen Carnal Knowledge or Balance albums)

This pedal may be b.s... but so far, the online demos sound better than any other option I've heard out there. Including the Keeley 30ms pedal. Recreating the TC Mimiq accurately with the Axe may be a nightmare...
If you pick one up post some clips of the "dry" and the "wet" tracks hard panned? Especially some clean guitar -- no amp or cab or anything else -- run through it? It'll be easier to understand what it does if we can get some comparison clips.
 
One way to make a more convincing fake double track effect is to split the signal at the beginning of the grid and run each copy through different effects, amps, and cabs. The dead giveaway for fake doubling is notch and comb filtering, so the more unique you can make each copy of the signal in terms of timing, dynamics, and frequency content, the less comb filtering and other sonic signatures and patterns you'll be able to pick out in the mix.
 
This is a long pedal review, but at least listen to 1:00 to about 2:30... If he's being honest, that's damn impressive...
I have no reason to doubt him. His old school doubling is amazing. The pedal sounds just like him. I personally can't track that close when I double. I'm too sloppy a player! :D
 
Yeah, no sh!t... I can't double that cleanly in recording either... all the more reason to get the pedal! ;)
 
Alright. I played around with this a bit tonight. So many things to play with to get this going! So much fun!

You'll have to endure my shitty playing, sorry, but here's a clip:


  1. Single AMP panned middle through a mono CAB
  2. Same AMP-CAB model on the left and right channels but the secret sauce is applied to the right channel. That's cool right?
  3. Same AMP setup on the left and right channels but this time the right channel has a different CAB IR than the left. Secret sauce is still on the right channel too.
  4. Same CAB IRs this time on both channels but different AMP setup on left and right. Secret sauce is still on the right channel.
  5. Different CAB IRs, different AMP models, secret sauce -- Le Big Mac, right?
That's about an hour of work and honestly, most of it was spent trying to not sound more terrible than I already do when I made the clip. I tried to do some of that chuggity-chuggity-chuggity riff-age you kids love these days but that was not happening.
 
Ok, you got my attention. So, what's the secret sauce trick, and how is it different then the enhancer block?
 
Ok, you got my attention. So, what's the secret sauce trick?
In one way or another...all the things I mentioned above. Though I used filter and pitch blocks instead of chorus and parametric EQ. Some fun with controllers to inject a whole bunch of dynamics (both random and not random) in to one side of the chain.

I'll post a patch eventually. Right now I'm running beta firmware so you guys and gals will have to wait for a bit.
 
I would expect this. Double tracking is a stereo concept. When comprised of 2 mono tracks you are still placing the tracks in a stereo image for the effect. As well this is a stereo pedal. It's just not a mono concept. IMHO.

Double tracking is not a stereo concept. It was used long before stereo recording. The fact that ADT uses two identical source signals (before manipulation) is what makes it impossible to create a convincing result when mixed to mono. Modulating one (or both) always leads to fake comb filter artifacts, even when different effects and amp models are used on each copy. The extreme harmonic content of distorted guitar makes the comb filtering painfully obvious, even with this TC pedal, which supposedly goes to great lengths to create a 'realistic' result.

I can record two independent guitars playing the same part and mix them to mono without any of the horrible comb filtering present in every ADT algorithm I've ever heard. ADT is WAY better than nothing live, but it is no match for the real thing. Some of the techniques mentioned in this thread are helpful to be sure.

The day someone releases a realistic ADT device is the day I break out my wallet to be the first in line.
 
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The fact that ADT uses two identical source signals (before manipulation) is what makes it impossible to create a convincing result when mixed to mono. Modulating one (or both) always leads to fake comb filter artifacts, even when different effects and amp models are used on each copy.

So much this.

When I share the preset above you can experiment with collapsing the stereo field to mono and see how bad it sounds for yourselves! :)
 
In one way or another...all the things I mentioned above. Though I used filter and pitch blocks instead of chorus and parametric EQ. Some fun with controllers to inject a whole bunch of dynamics (both random and not random) in to one side of the chain.

I'll post a patch eventually. Right now I'm running beta firmware so you guys and gals will have to wait for a bit.

Beta Firmware??? Hmmm!
 
LOTS of good stuff here. I too felt compelled to try and re-create this MIMIQ pedal a bit, and similar to IARESEE's technique above I too used pitch and filter block. I used 1 amp block and 1 CAB block though. Think about when we double track, we typically don't use another tone (when tracking a single guitar), at least I don't. It's not the tone that makes double tracking so awesome, its the fact that its different performances giving it that human quality of slight imperfections, and yes, panned hard left and right etc. As stated above in several instances, Computers can't really achieve this, they can only emulate. SoO I created a preset that, IMO gets pretty close. I have attached the preset. Enjoy!

1) My apologies, but i'm using a custom cab from the ML sound pack 13 I believe (Citrus 4X12 SM57-SM57) so you will need to change the cab to your desired cab on your end.

2) Scene 1-Dual delay block: This is pretty much an ADT. Dry signal hard right and Delayed signal Hard left. The delay block does have some different EQ though, so that helps to differentiate.

3) Scene 2-Dual Delay & Pitch block: I'm using ad. whammy and set an LFO controller to fluctuate the start/stop from -2 to 2 to create a sense of randomized pitch shifting (pick attack), it's very subtle but it is audible. Also play with the pitch track parameters if you want: poly; mono; off;pitch track control etc. this will affect time and width.

4) Scene 3- Dual Delay & Filter Block: The filter block has a 1db increase from 200hz to like 400-600hz (don't remember exactly) and I also set an LFO controller to the gain parameter to fluctuate between 1db & 0 db at a constant rate. This will hopefully emulate the different volumes, and timbre of an additional performance.

5) Scene 4- Dual Delay, Pitch, Filter Blocks all on: This scene is just a combination of scene 1-3.

You can throw the looper block in the front of the chain and loop a riff and toggle between the scenes for faster A/B monitoring. Also, if you look at the LFO controller settings you will see how I have the LFO controlling this stuff, they are SUBTLE. Scenes 5-8 should be he same but with a clean amp.

Let me know what you all think, hopefully it'll spark some ideas! It's not perfect, but it def. is a step up from just using a delay block to offset the time.

Gear: JP6, MFC 101, AXE-FX MKII Quantum 4.00

Cheers!
 

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Double tracking is not a stereo concept. It was used long before stereo recording.

You obviously are right steadystate considering it's an Abbey Road concept used for the Beatles. I spoke too simply. When I think double tracking I think 2 concepts. A 2nd original part, to add thickness and interest (which could be a mono part free of oscillations) or a 2nd part using stereo field placement for the enhancement. What I hear most commonly in todays recordings, and in the pedal, is the latter.

This is an interesting unit:

 
You obviously are right steadystate considering it's an Abbey Road concept used for the Beatles. I spoke too simply. When I think double tracking I think 2 concepts. A 2nd original part, to add thickness and interest (which could be a mono part free of oscillations) or a 2nd part using stereo field placement for the enhancement. What I hear most commonly in todays recordings, and in the pedal, is the latter.

This is an interesting unit:

:)

http://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/double-tracking-effect-on-live-guitar.119376/#post-1420468
 
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