Wish Channel Groups and Bypass Groups

Dave Merrill

Dave Merrill

Axe-Master
Like other folks, I've been wishing for the ability to easily change channels on multiple blocks at once. One thought that's been floating around is the option to have a block's channel follow another one. However, in practice that seems both hard to implement, and hard to get your head around, since both users and the firmware would have to trace back to find the "original" block that wasn't following something else to figure out what channel was actually in effect. Also, if you removed a block that was in a channel-following chain, it'd have patch that chain up again. The firmware would also have to prevent you from setting up circular dependencies.

Instead, I propose a new concept: Channel Groups.

The idea is that a block can be set to a specific channel, and also optionally assigned to a channel group. Footswitches can set, increment, decrement, or toggle a block's channel, like they do now, OR, they can do those same things to a channel group. Changing the channel of a group would affect all blocks that were assigned to that group.

It's easy to understand, no convoluted chain detective work or circular dependency prevention needed, and makes it easy to change amp and cab together, or drive block and post-amp EQ etc.

Questions:
  • Fixed number of channel groups, say 8, or add them manually as needed?
  • Should you be able to name them, or is that unnecessary?

Thoughts?
 
Last edited:
I think the MFC had something similar, where you could set up groups... (?)

+1 on some way to implement this if it doesn't get too messy. Would be great to change say Amp/Cab and leave the rest of your fx as they are.
 
I think this is probably the best option I have seen proposed for the general problem at hand.

I like this idea and could see it being "easy(-er)" to implement (said from the comfort of my Sunday morning armchair ;))

+1
 
jefferski said:
I think the MFC had something similar, where you could set up groups... (?)

+1 on some way to implement this if it doesn't get too messy. Would be great to change say Amp/Cab and leave the rest of your fx as they are.
Click to expand...
You might be thinking of switch groups? That was more about making switches mutually exclusive.
 
Bumping and renaming this thread,to expand it a bit, and pump its virtues...

Two new settings in each block instance, Bypass Group (none, 1-15), and Channel Group (none, 1-15).
They work very similarly:
  • They show up in the FCs as available targets for Bypass and Channel switch actions
    • Choose an action, and a Bypass or Channel Group 1 - 15 to affect
      • Works just like the existing bypass and channel actions, but affects a group of blocks instead of one
    • Bypass Group
      • Adds Bypass Groups 1-15 to the current block selection menu for a switch
      • The switch then affects all blocks assigned to the selected Bypass Group
    • Channel Group
      • Adds Channel Groups 1-15 to the current block channel selection menu for a switch
      • The switch then affects all blocks assigned to the selected Channel Group
  • Implementing this has NO EFFECT on how a preset loads
    • No CPU usage
    • No added latency
    • No added complexity for users
    • No backwards compatibility issues for existing presets
    • No implementation effort to get it to work right on load
  • Minimal data storage
    • 4 bits each per block, total 1 byte
  • All actions required have already been implemented
    • These features just let a single switch press affect multiple blocks
WHY?
I constantly want to be able to turn or or change channels on multiple blocks at once with an FC switch, for example:
  • Turning on a drive block that's louder than the original signal, so it pushes the amp, but that gets a lot louder.
    I'd like to turn on a volume or EQ block after the amp at the same time, to compensate.
    I want this all day every day.
  • In that drive/volume block scenario, I want to be able to change channels on both blocks together
  • Complex multi-effect combinations

Nice to have's, maybe:
  • A way to perform these actions via MIDI, as well as through the FC's proprietary protocol
  • Ability to name groups, per preset
    • PROS
      • Plain-language names make it easier to remember what blocks are in each group
    • CONS
      • Increases the storage required
      • Text editing on the unit is fiddly
  • Both of these could be added later if there's sufficient interest

I have very few significant wishes in Fractal-land.
These features would solve my #1 and #2 wishes, in a pretty straightforward and hopefully not too hard to build way.

Thoughts?
 
Last edited:
Dave Merrill said:
Bumping and renaming this thread,to expand it a bit, and pump its virtues...

Two new settings in each block instance, Bypass Group (none, 1-15), and Channel Group (none, 1-15).
They work very similarly:
  • They show up in the FCs as available switch actions
    • Choose an action, and a Bypass or Channel Group 1 - 15 to affect
      • Works just like the existing bypass and channel actions, but affects a group of blocks instead of one
    • Bypass Group
      • Adds Bypass Groups 1-15 to the current block selection menu for a switch
      • The switch then affects all blocks assigned to the selected Bypass Group
    • Channel Group
      • Adds Channel Groups 1-15 to the current block channel selection menu for a switch
      • The switch then affects all blocks assigned to the selected Channel Group
  • Implementing this has NO EFFECT on how a preset loads
    • No CPU usage
    • No added latency
    • No added complexity for users
    • No backwards compatibility issues for existing presets
    • No implementation effort
  • Minimal data storage
    • 4 bits each per block, total 1 byte
  • All actions required have already been implemented
    • These features just let a single switch press affect multiple blocks
WHY?
I constantly want to be able to turn or or change channels on multiple blocks at once with an FC switch, for example:
  • Turning on a drive block that's louder than the original signal, so it pushes the amp, but that gets a lot louder.
    I'd like to turn on a volume or EQ block after the amp at the same time, to compensate.
    I want this all day every day.
  • In that drive/volume block scenario, I want to be able to change channels on both blocks together
  • Complex multi-effect combinations

Nice to have's, maybe:
  • A way to perform these actions via MIDI, as well as through the FC's proprietary protocol
  • Ability to name groups, per preset
    • PROS
      • Plain-language names make it easier to remember what blocks are in each group
    • CONS
      • Increases the storage required
      • Text editing on the unit is fiddly

I have very few significant wishes in Fractal-land.
These features would solve my #1 and #2 wishes, in a pretty straightforward and hopefully not too hard to build way.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
This is an interesting thought. +1
 
Dave Merrill said:
Bumping and renaming this thread,to expand it a bit, and pump its virtues...

Two new settings in each block instance, Bypass Group (none, 1-15), and Channel Group (none, 1-15).
They work very similarly:
  • They show up in the FCs as available targets for Bypass and Channel switch actions
    • Choose an action, and a Bypass or Channel Group 1 - 15 to affect
      • Works just like the existing bypass and channel actions, but affects a group of blocks instead of one
    • Bypass Group
      • Adds Bypass Groups 1-15 to the current block selection menu for a switch
      • The switch then affects all blocks assigned to the selected Bypass Group
    • Channel Group
      • Adds Channel Groups 1-15 to the current block channel selection menu for a switch
      • The switch then affects all blocks assigned to the selected Channel Group
  • Implementing this has NO EFFECT on how a preset loads
    • No CPU usage
    • No added latency
    • No added complexity for users
    • No backwards compatibility issues for existing presets
    • No implementation effort to get it to work right on load
  • Minimal data storage
    • 4 bits each per block, total 1 byte
  • All actions required have already been implemented
    • These features just let a single switch press affect multiple blocks
WHY?
I constantly want to be able to turn or or change channels on multiple blocks at once with an FC switch, for example:
  • Turning on a drive block that's louder than the original signal, so it pushes the amp, but that gets a lot louder.
    I'd like to turn on a volume or EQ block after the amp at the same time, to compensate.
    I want this all day every day.
  • In that drive/volume block scenario, I want to be able to change channels on both blocks together
  • Complex multi-effect combinations

Nice to have's, maybe:
  • A way to perform these actions via MIDI, as well as through the FC's proprietary protocol
  • Ability to name groups, per preset
    • PROS
      • Plain-language names make it easier to remember what blocks are in each group
    • CONS
      • Increases the storage required
      • Text editing on the unit is fiddly

I have very few significant wishes in Fractal-land.
These features would solve my #1 and #2 wishes, in a pretty straightforward and hopefully not too hard to build way.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
Well thought out and detailed.

I like this!
 
Dave Merrill said:
Nice to have's, maybe:
  • A way to perform these actions via MIDI, as well as through the FC's proprietary protocol
Click to expand...
Being able to choose which control method to use should never be a "maybe" or "nice to have". If the FC supports it, it should be possible via MIDI as well.

Otherwise this sounds a lot like scenes within scenes. I like it as an idea but not sure how much I would use it personally. Your reasoning for implementation is solid and way better than that channel following idea.
 
This is me just pumping this idea again.
It really expands what the FCs can do, and hopefully external MIDI too, in a clear and straightforward way.
I'd really like it, and I think other folks would too.
 
This looks like a great idea! Seems to address both of these requests (mostly) in a simple approach.

Block Independence per Scene
https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/option-to-make-a-block-scene-independent.141532/

Control Switch Channel Select
https://forum.fractalaudio.com/thre...as-modifier-source-for-channel-select.149828/

I hope this gets some traction. Right now, I have to juggle scene and control-switches to do what I need. Getting some type of resolution to this has been my main wish as well.
 
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