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axe sounding terrible through guitar cab?

I had somewhat of a similar issue when using my cabs. I am using V30's in a 4x12. I am now using a 2/90/2 from Frytette and I tweaked the patches. It really helped sound better with cab sims off and the level up quite a bit from my frfr setup. Cranked the master in the amp block too as much as possible before clipping. Keep tweaking you'll get it.

Some amp sims sound better than others I've found. It might help to tweak the eq for mid boosting also.
 

chris

Legend!
you can turn the master all the way up and still not clip by turning down the "level" knob in the amp block. the master is a "tone shaping" knob in addition to its volume capabilities.
 

rsf1977

Fractal Fanatic
Turn the volume all the way off on your matrix amp. Then on the front or your axefx crank the output knob to the max. It may sound strange but when that knob is maxed you are at unity gain which means the signal isn't getting boosted or cut. Then slowly bring up your matrix volume levels and see if it's any better.
 
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Trazan

Experienced
Turn the volume all the way off on your matrix amp. Then on the front or your axefx crank the output knob to the max. It may sound strange but when that knob is maxed you are at unity gain which means the signal isn't getting boosted or cut. Then slowly bring up your matrix volume levels and see if it's any better.
In that case I would make sure to lower the level considerably within the Axe (global output gain and/or amp level). The Matrix delivers full output power with a 0dBU input signal. If his patches are close to maxing internally, level wise, he is putting out close to +20 dBU...not sure if the Matrix even has that headroom. "Unity gain" really isn't very relevant in this setup as the signal is boosted a boatload within the Axe. With no amplification whatsoever within the Axe (direct guitar), the signal will be the same at the output with the output knob at full, which is what you'd want in a 4 cm setup.

Axe into a cab is by far the best sounding to me. FRFR go home :razz
 
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FractalAudio

Administrator
Fractal Audio Systems
Moderator
Turn the volume all the way off on your matrix amp. Then on the front or your axefx crank the output knob to the max. It may sound strange but when that knob is maxed you are at unity gain which means the signal isn't getting boosted or cut. Then slowly bring up your matrix volume levels and see if it's any better.
Respectfully disagree. Start with Matrix volume at noon. Bring up Axe-Fx volume until desired level is reached. If you need more, turn up Matrix.
 

rsf1977

Fractal Fanatic
Respectfully disagree. Start with Matrix volume at noon. Bring up Axe-Fx volume until desired level is reached. If you need more, turn up Matrix.
Just curious why you wouldn't do this, is it a performance issue, or a be careful with your levels issue?
 

schlagdog

Inspired
All you need is more Depth usually. Running a cab sim on out of a cab confused me that people don't know you aren't supposed to do that. You are essentially running a massive EQ curve into a real cab then. So it will always sound thin when you turn can sims off. Especially if you are used to a direct tone. I think there are alot of new guitarists buying and AXEFX and Rokit 5's that need to own a poweramp amd cab setup also. I mean if you use a German cab model which is bass heavy and you have a sweet direct tone and also have the chain broke off with an FXLOOP and go out into a 4x12 it's never going to match up tone wise with the real 4x12 that isn't bass heavy unless you turn up the depth or use some global eq then you will be blowing up your direct tone. I still think the easiest way to get a consistent tone from a cab and direct is to get a great cab sound then make an IR of it. That is if you really like to always use a real cabinet.
 

FractalAudio

Administrator
Fractal Audio Systems
Moderator
Just curious why you wouldn't do this, is it a performance issue, or a be careful with your levels issue?
Proper gain staging. With the Axe-Fx volume all the way up you would be pushing +20 dBu into the amp which could clip the inputs to the amp. Unity gain mode is only desirable for 4-cable-method.
 

schlagdog

Inspired
Proper gain staging. With the Axe-Fx volume all the way up you would be pushing +20 dBu into the amp which could clip the inputs to the amp. Unity gain mode is only desirable for 4-cable-method.
+1
Maxing the AXEFX output for a poweramp is just crushing a +db signal into an amp and wouldn't make it sound any fatter.
 

rsf1977

Fractal Fanatic
Proper gain staging. With the Axe-Fx volume all the way up you would be pushing +20 dBu into the amp which could clip the inputs to the amp. Unity gain mode is only desirable for 4-cable-method.
dang mang, i did not know this. Thanks. I've had that knob maxed into my Matrix amp forever :( Is there a method to knowing how high to set it. Or is it a if it sounds crappy turn it down kinda thing?
 

schlagdog

Inspired
Ty Tabor has his Ultra's Output 1 nearly cranked, and the Matrix at 10 o'clock.
View attachment 13460
My Matrix just got shipped out to me yesterday so next week I will get a good idea of it. You can't go by any of these knobs on this picture because the part of the rack that is cut off has a Fryette poweramp in it. You can see it in the video of him playing live with this rack. So he probably hasn't really dialed it in yet to switch to it.
 

schlagdog

Inspired
dang mang, i did not know this. Thanks. I've had that knob maxed into my Matrix amp forever :( Is there a method to knowing how high to set it. Or is it a if it sounds crappy turn it down kinda thing?
You could run the AXEFX maxed out like that to push a tube poweramp because it has 12ax7's or other preamp tubes that could get pushed and add something. The matrix input section can't be pushed being solid state.
 

kelso1

Inspired
You can't go by any of these knobs on this picture because the part of the rack that is cut off has a Fryette poweramp in it. You can see it in the video of him playing live with this rack. So he probably hasn't really dialed it in yet to switch to it.
He is using the Matrix, and his backup power amp is a QSC
see this thread http://forum.fractalaudio.com/lounge/58051-kings-x.html or the Matrix Facebook page
 

schlagdog

Inspired
He is using the Matrix, and his backup power amp is a QSC
see this thread http://forum.fractalaudio.com/lounge/58051-kings-x.html or the Matrix Facebook page
100% right dude. I just watched that 1 video posted from a far away camera and could see the silver poweramp which is usually a Fryette. Just looked at that thread with a blown up pic someone took from the audience and it is indeed a QSC. He just needs to update to amd AXEFXII now. That actually makes me feel good since my GT1000 got shipped out today.
 

Rex

Legend!
With the Axe-Fx volume all the way up you would be pushing +20 dBu into the amp which could clip the inputs to the amp. Unity gain mode is only desirable for 4-cable-method.
And if you're running an amp sim, you've blown way past unity gain, anyway. :)
 
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cellopet

Inspired
Respectfully disagree. Start with Matrix volume at noon. Bring up Axe-Fx volume until desired level is reached. If you need more, turn up Matrix.
I don't know why, but for Live gigs i have not too much volume outside, even in rehersal room.
I use Axe Fx II---> Matrix Gt1000fx----> 2x12 Dragoon cab ( all running in stereo)
I have Axe volume at 3 o'clock and Matrix at 2 o'clock...Still has not too much volume...
Must i run in bridged mode to have more volume?
 

carydad

Inspired
Yeah, I keep trying to go FRFR, but I just love my 1x12s. Wide mesa 1x12 on the bottom, axerack, egnater 1x12 with a v30 or ev12L. Literally blows me over. It does sound darker at bedroom levels as tweaked-but is perfect at band levels-to be expected. My XTC took some power to start purring when that was my main amp.

What I am doing at the moment-is I do NOT copy out1 to out2, I leave cabs on and put in an FXLOOP in each patch. I have 15 main ones. Sometimes, like with violin, that still uses the cab(guitar body) because the loop is at the end of the chain. I like it that way, and it sounds lame with cabs off. I also leave a FRFR speaker at home to hook up so I can test patches without editing them first. So AXE2-MAT1K-assorted 1x12s or 2x12 depending on mood=ROCK
 

Sharka

Experienced
Hey man please give the patches I uploaded to Axe Change a shot, they are EXACT to my Mark V (slave out) so you will have the sound of your power amp and etc and the knobs do translate on that model. I've recorded the mesa and then recorded the axe and there was no difference in gain or frequency. I used Axe FX cabs as well so just turn those off and it should be just like a Mesa Head!
Hey Sean,

Thanks I will definitely give your presets a try! I appreciate you taking the time to offer a solution.

After doing to further tweaking last night (thanks Se7en!); it’s become very obvious the same settings used with the cabinet simulator are not going to cut it just by turning the (cabinet) simulator off.

My Soldano and TriAxis preamps sound big, full (and amazing) thought my cabinet, so I defiantly have a QA environment to test against.

While there is no argument the unit sound amazing thought headphones, computer or console; there seems to be very little documentation (or advice) about getting a great tone through a “real” cabinet.


Thanks again!
 

johna156

Inspired
I used to use my standard back in the days with a mesa boogie 50/50 and 4x12 cab. The sound was excellent, albeit similar from patch to patch (especially for hi-gain sounds) since every amp model was going through the same PA and cab. I then sold the 50/50 and used an art sla2. The sound was even better (less coloring from the PA) but still similar from patch to patch (again because of the use of the same 4x12 cab).
I had always used the axe in this configuration with cab sims off and power amp sim on.
Then I got rid of the 4x12 cab and bought a pair of studio monitors. Now (and with the axe 2) I can hear every little thing when I'm trying to adjust anything and every amp and cab/mic combination is vastly different from one another.
I would say that your problem lies somewhere in your setup (maybe sth wrong with the cables, Ohm matching, levels, possibly phase problems from stereo to mono etc). Start with an empty patch with just an amp, make sure everything is connected correctly and go through your I/O menu (all pages) to see that everything is as it should be (e.g. correct input calibration, mono output selection etc).
It SHOULD be REALLY easy to get an awesome sound (if everything is connected correctly), without any "excessive" tweaking, just as if you were to tweak a real amp. If this doesn't happen, then there is something wrong with either the rest of the hardware (since you say that through headphones it sounds fine), or with something else in your signal chain (e.g. bad cables, guitar with active pickups and low battery etc).
 
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