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axe sounding terrible through guitar cab?

Se7en

Inspired
Hey Sean,

Thanks I will definitely give your presets a try! I appreciate you taking the time to offer a solution.

After doing to further tweaking last night (thanks Se7en!); it’s become very obvious the same settings used with the cabinet simulator are not going to cut it just by turning the (cabinet) simulator off.

My Soldano and TriAxis preamps sound big, full (and amazing) thought my cabinet, so I defiantly have a QA environment to test against.

While there is no argument the unit sound amazing thought headphones, computer or console; there seems to be very little documentation (or advice) about getting a great tone through a “real” cabinet.


Thanks again!

I have my axe wired like this:
Output 1 XLR --> Adam A7x
Output 2 -> Mesa 2:90 -> Mesa 4 x12

I dial all my patches with "output 2" until I'm satisfied. I usually run high gain mesa'ish sound.
The patches will become bassy through the monitors, in my cab-block I always use the Low cut (and high cut) and sometimes even peq after cab block.
That works very well for me!
Cab block IR, i use OH beta mixed to sound similar to my cab.
 
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schlagdog

Inspired
Hey Sean,

Thanks I will definitely give your presets a try! I appreciate you taking the time to offer a solution.

After doing to further tweaking last night (thanks Se7en!); it’s become very obvious the same settings used with the cabinet simulator are not going to cut it just by turning the (cabinet) simulator off.

My Soldano and TriAxis preamps sound big, full (and amazing) thought my cabinet, so I defiantly have a QA environment to test against.

While there is no argument the unit sound amazing thought headphones, computer or console; there seems to be very little documentation (or advice) about getting a great tone through a “real” cabinet.


Thanks again!
Like I said in my post. You can't take a patch set up with cabs sims on it and then just turn them off and go through a real cab. A cab sim is basically a massive EQ curve applied to your tone adding tons of frequencies. The cab model you may be using in a direct signal may be bass heavy or mid heavy or whatever and tweaking your amp model to sound going through it then trying to use a real cab with it off will never sound right. Start your patch by using a real cab then maybe find a cab model for direct tones. You can usually achieve a big cab tone by simply turning the depth up on your amp model. Try it up at say 2:00 and you will have low end.
 

Kriig

Fractal Fanatic
Much low end in the pa is not recommended. It fun and sound fat`n cool in your cab, but often your can hear all the mess when the whole band play together.

Low end/deep freq will mess up a mix. I cut low end in the global eq. FOH will cut them anyway. Usually cut around 100-130.

A lot of OOOOOOOOOMPHHHHHH goes away, but your nut looks better in the whole picture..... ??? WHAT???!!!

You`ll fit better in the mix....
 

Sharka

Experienced
I would say that your problem lies somewhere in your setup (maybe sth wrong with the cables, Ohm matching, levels, possibly phase problems from stereo to mono etc).
I would agree with you, however, my other preamps (Soldano X-99 and TriAxis) sound fine through the same setup (which isn't very complicated, as I mentioned). So if something was botched in the setup, then everything would sound thin and weak.

However, I do appreciate your input. Thanks!
 

kmanick

Fractal Fanatic
I used to have the same probelms (most of my early posts here were ("what's wrong with my rig it sounds like a busted transistor radio thru my
power amp out to my real cabs")
Now I create completely seperate patches for use with my real cabs, I've found that if I have a patch that I like that uses cab sims
I can somewhat replicate it using a GEQ and a PEQ in the patch to try and get the EQ curve similar to what the cab sim gets you.
It's not perfect but it's to the point where I love what I get out of this rig now.
 

Sharka

Experienced
Hey kmanick,

Yes, at this point from what I've learned here that seems to be the case. I spent some time with my bass player listening and tweaking and I gotta say; I'm really starting dig the tones now! A big improvement.

A big thanks to some of the other brothers sharing their knowledge (Sean Ashe, Se7en, etc..), kudos!


Cheers!
 

yves vanmeenen

Inspired
Hi Sean,

do you still have those patches around on the exchange or new ones, for use with real cab and cab sims off? Have more or less same problem with my real cab as in the tread.

thkx
Yves
 

jrh_67

Inspired
I had the same problem with mine when I first got it. As soon as I would turn off the cabinet sims the sound was very thin and bright. What I finally did was create a sound I like through studio monitors first. Then I turned off the cabinet simulation and added a parametric eq in it's place and set it to where it sounded good to my ears. It didn't sound the same but more "full" than the studio monitors did and in the end I actually preferred the sound out of the cab...

Now I use two Xitone frfr cabs through a Carvin Dcm1540l and an evh 2x12 cab through a Carvin TS100 in a hybrid wet/dry/wet rig and it sounds freakin incredible! It sounds like a "Wall" of sound and just huge. I'm almost 50 years old and it's by FAR the best guitar sound I've ever had in my life.....
 

aziz

Power User
I loved my open 2x12 for Fender/Vox/MrZ sounds, it had all the spank and sparkle they're supposed to have. But high gain tones were totally useless. It's like having just one specific sounding IR, it doesn't work with everything. I sold the cab and got a CLR, now I have a million good tones.
 

Paperjace

Experienced
I'm not sure how this is so problematic for people. I run an AF2 (cab sim OFF, power amp ON) through a GT1000 in a Marshall cabinet and it sounds glorious. I had to tweak my preset a little to compliment my cab, but it works.

The only way I can imagine that it doesn't sound good is that the preset was created, sculpted, and refined using an IR. The preset's tone with that specific IR (cab and mic combination, essentially 2 "filters") will sound totally different through a live cab and your ear.

For example, if I created and sculpted a preset with a 5153 Red amp block through an IR of, say, an oversized Mesa 4x12 mic'ed with an MD421, it'll sound exactly the way I expect it since I created it through monitors/headphones/FRFR/what-have-you. If I played that same patch with cab simulation off through a GT1000 and an actual Marshall 4x12, its going to sound drastically different because everything's setup for the IR.

If the patch doesn't sound as you expect it, copy it and rebuild the new preset while plugged in with the Matrix/live cab.
 

Sharka

Experienced
I'm not sure how this is so problematic for people. I run an AF2 (cab sim OFF, power amp ON) through a GT1000 in a Marshall cabinet and it sounds glorious. I had to tweak my preset a little to compliment my cab, but it works.

The only way I can imagine that it doesn't sound good is that the preset was created, sculpted, and refined using an IR. The preset's tone with that specific IR (cab and mic combination, essentially 2 "filters") will sound totally different through a live cab and your ear.

For example, if I created and sculpted a preset with a 5153 Red amp block through an IR of, say, an oversized Mesa 4x12 mic'ed with an MD421, it'll sound exactly the way I expect it since I created it through monitors/headphones/FRFR/what-have-you. If I played that same patch with cab simulation off through a GT1000 and an actual Marshall 4x12, its going to sound drastically different because everything's setup for the IR.

If the patch doesn't sound as you expect it, copy it and rebuild the new preset while plugged in with the Matrix/live cab.
You gotta remember... this is a very old thread, like about firmware 10, if I'm not mistaken.

Since Firmware 11 (and forward) everything changed for the better in a monumental way. I've had no problem getting a great sound ever since. At least that has been my experience.
 

yves vanmeenen

Inspired
Hi Guys,

taken some advice from the tread and I must say I am getting close now:).
Adding depth and a Graphical EQ seems to be the way to do it...
Still surprised that there are so little presets for download for power amp / real cab set up.....unless they are wrongly tagged in the system....
It would still be good if fractal would spend a chapter in the user manual on this "subject"..... or some instructional video's might help as well....
Thkx for all good advice!!!

Yves
 

Roadrunner

Power User
This is something I've struggled since day1 (around 2012) with the Axe.
My setup is based on XL > GT1000FX > 2 x NL212 cabs (stereo setup).
All my presets always sounds better when cab sim is ON, when I turn the cab OFF the sound gets fizzy, thin and harsh.

I would appreciate if someone who runs a similar setup and using cab sim OFF, can share few presets that works for him so I can compare over my setup.
Just for the record, I had this problem with other units (Axe / amps/ cabs) as well so it's not something with the current unit / rig/ wiring etc..
 

Rich5150

Inspired
This is something I've struggled since day1 (around 2012) with the Axe.
My setup is based on XL > GT1000FX > 2 x NL212 cabs (stereo setup).
All my presets always sounds better when cab sim is ON, when I turn the cab OFF the sound gets fizzy, thin and harsh.

I would appreciate if someone who runs a similar setup and using cab sim OFF, can share few presets that works for him so I can compare over my setup.
Just for the record, I had this problem with other units (Axe / amps/ cabs) as well so it's not something with the current unit / rig/ wiring etc..

yea I have the same setup with the GT1000 and 2 nl212"s and same here i love it with the cab sims on but when i turn them off ugh sounds like crap. If I'm not mistaken the NL212's can be run either way and still sound good so i just run mine with the sims on, one day ill work on it with no cab sims and see what i can come up with.
 

Roadrunner

Power User
Ok here is a shot…

I started a new preset from scratch, I throw in the first popular amp I could think of + a G-e.q block.
I have tweaked the G-e.q a little as the overall sound was very thin fizzy etc., cranked DEPTH and that’s it
Then took that preset and replaced the e.q block with a cab block + slightly reduced DEPTH only.
Nothing else was touched.

I recorded a short demo with my ZOOM H2n, placed near one of the NL212.
Now, the room is made of concrete walls so there is some reflection from the walls which you can hear.
Further, I recorded a WAV format but sound cloud processes pretty killed it.:(

00:00 – 01:02 is without a cab block and with a G-e.q slightly modified.
01:03 – END Is without the e.q and with a cab block, nothing is changed but the DEPTH slightly reduced.

My ears telling me the one with the cab block sounds better, practically both presets are not the best sound there is but compering one to each other, I prefer the one with the cab ON.

What do you think guys?
Both presets are attached, FW18.03.


View attachment NO CAB TEST.syx
View attachment WITH CAB TEST.syx
 

hoth

Inspired
Ok here is a shot…

I started a new preset from scratch, I throw in the first popular amp I could think of + a G-e.q block.
I have tweaked the G-e.q a little as the overall sound was very thin fizzy etc., cranked DEPTH and that’s it
Then took that preset and replaced the e.q block with a cab block + slightly reduced DEPTH only.
Nothing else was touched.

I recorded a short demo with my ZOOM H2n, placed near one of the NL212.
Now, the room is made of concrete walls so there is some reflection from the walls which you can hear.
Further, I recorded a WAV format but sound cloud processes pretty killed it.:(

00:00 – 01:02 is without a cab block and with a G-e.q slightly modified.
01:03 – END Is without the e.q and with a cab block, nothing is changed but the DEPTH slightly reduced.

My ears telling me the one with the cab block sounds better, practically both presets are not the best sound there is but compering one to each other, I prefer the one with the cab ON.

What do you think guys?
Both presets are attached, FW18.03.


View attachment 25650
View attachment 25651
FWIW I also liked the second one better largely because it sounds tighter to me. It's not the usual difference that I hear when turning cab modeling on or off but I've been going through FRFR for the last few years.
 
To the OP. Have you tried using the master graphic eq on the AxeFX? I find that adding 2 or 3 db of boost from 2khz on up, and from 120hz on down,
make all the factory patches come alive when using an SS power amp and a guitar cab with no cab sims.
 

Rex

Legend!
Ok here is a shot…

I started a new preset from scratch,...

00:00 – 01:02 is without a cab block and with a G-e.q slightly modified.
01:03 – END Is without the e.q and with a cab block, nothing is changed but the DEPTH slightly reduced.

What do you think guys?

Those two clips are different from each other in three ways: cab, EQ and Depth. There's no way to draw a valid conclusion about the cab when so many other things have been changed.
 

xpenno

Power User
Try a PEQ block with the following settings, I'm kind of digging these but I'm using a traditional guitar cab with a Matrix GT1000FX.

Low Shelf, 300hz, default Q, -5db
High Shelf, 7500hz, default Q, -3db
125hz, q = 2 , +3db

Should have said place this before the amp block.
 
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