Axe-Fx III Firmware 29.00 Public Beta

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Sup?

Ok,, nothing to do with this firmware,, It's great so far, even getting some love from some I don't usually land on ,( Cameron CCV) Anyway at some point did the Presence control on the Savage change? I remember it changing character( just like my old real one) as you swept it, and it getting louder and mid'ish when you turned it down.. (can't quite remember what mine did when you turned it all the way down,,,,,,,did something though)

Anyway,,, It just seems to sweep from brittle to muffle now, like a regular presence control. Am I crazy or ????

MOSHON
DAVE🤘
 
Budda said:
People boost 5150s for more tightness and mid shift too. If you want a tight high gain head, the trick is less gain. Most metal guys dont use less gain ;)
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Yup. Live we never used a boost pedal, or even put the gain past 2-3. I'd always crank it to 5-6 at bedroom volumes, but when letting it rip through a 4x12 "less is more" was the way to go with the 5150 in my experience.
 
Regarding the 5150 Block as it is now:

I personally don't have real experience with the actual amp, so my reference point is recordings (both records and demonstrations online) and the Axe Fx itself (though I did spend some time with the 6505+, but that was more than a decade ago now I think). For me at least, aside from the changes in the remaster, the attack and high gain character really started to change after the 28.05 update, and it's maintained that character with some subtle and some not-so-subtle changes to brightness through the following firmwares, which does some sense given 28.08 corrected the presence behavior. I

Here's some clips that showcase the change in distortion and attack. It's most audible on palm mutes and single notes to me, and less audible on open chords. All the clips were recorded with the same DI's reamped through each firmware in the order of 28.04->28.05->28.08->29.0b and the amp models was kept at stock settings with the amp block reset after each update to make sure all the advanced parameters are at default values as well. DI was recorded with the Axe Fx and the Cab block just has a single 3rd party IR with no high or low cuts, room modeling, etc.





The playing isn't obviously the greatest, but for me the difference is audible. The attack response is definitely different as @rossipedia mentioned, but like I said, for me at least, that started in 28.05 rather than the beta. The character I'm hearing kinda reminds me of a fuzz, which I mentioned in my original thread too. Doing this side-by-side, I also feel like I can hear the extra low/low-mid buildup that was mentioned between 28.08 and 29.0b, but I admit that could just be placebo due to being primed from reading through the thread.

I personally haven't heard this particular attack in other examples of the real amp, but if this character in model as it is now matches the reference amp exactly, then maybe it's just due to something to do with that particular amp, or I just have yet to hear another real Block letter with this character and it's more common than I originally thought. I guess we can confirm if some more people can post sound clips comparing their real amps to the model, even though component tolerances are definitely also going to play a role there.
 
Yet another reminder I don't have amazing ears. I can't honestly say there is a difference I can hear or feel. : )
I respect the quest all the same.
 
The Raven said:
Regarding the 5150 Block as it is now
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I can hear an obvious difference. The biggest "step" is between 28.05 and 28.08.
To me 28.08 sounds darker (maybe not in the treble but presence range?) and also a little muddier (low-mid buildup) and maybe.. stiffer? As in less defined.
I do not have enough experience with a real 5150/6505 to be able to tell which sounds closer. These are just my general observations. I much prefer 28.04-05.
 
rossipedia said:
Yup. Live we never used a boost pedal, or even put the gain past 2-3. I'd always crank it to 5-6 at bedroom volumes, but when letting it rip through a 4x12 "less is more" was the way to go with the 5150 in my experience.
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The more you play loud, the more you need to turn down the bass and gain knob for sure
 
Also maybe that is an IR thing as most of us got the stack sound in mind and not the recorded one .

But for example, here it is miced, and it sounded like what I have in mind



When I choose it in the axe it doesn’t sound like that .

Dont know, just an observation ..(and I’m not alone to feel that)

one day I will spend more time with it to see if with other IRs…

But If Cliff say that the axe is 100% accurate with his tube head 🤷
 
Yes! I realize this is just a beta and will likely change. Just my two cents ... Whatever has changed is what I have been tweaking for. There was way too much low end in the wrong spot, and way too much highs in the wrong spot before. It seems so balanced in comparison. I can relax my cuts a bit without stepping on other band members toes. I don't use the 5150s much, but I'll try it out tomorrow after work. Sounds great to me. thanks Cliff!
 
This thread is starting to look like back in the days when someone was complaining about the Mesa amps in a new firmware update, which later evolved into a major amp modeling update.

Thanks for all the hard work. Gonna give the 2203 amp model a spin soon with the new firmware and compare it to my real one.
 
moshwitz said:
Sup?

Ok,, nothing to do with this firmware,, It's great so far, even getting some love from some I don't usually land on ,( Cameron CCV) Anyway at some point did the Presence control on the Savage change? I remember it changing character( just like my old real one) as you swept it, and it getting louder and mid'ish when you turned it down.. (can't quite remember what mine did when you turned it all the way down,,,,,,,did something though)

Anyway,,, It just seems to sweep from brittle to muffle now, like a regular presence control. Am I crazy or ????

MOSHON
DAVE🤘
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No you are correct, I remember it working exactly the same as the presence in the FAS Brootalz in the past.
It been more like/the same as a regular presence control for quite a while now.
 
axes said:
I can hear an obvious difference. The biggest "step" is between 28.05 and 28.08.
To me 28.08 sounds darker (maybe not in the treble but presence range?) and also a little muddier (low-mid buildup) and maybe.. stiffer? As in less defined.
I do not have enough experience with a real 5150/6505 to be able to tell which sounds closer. These are just my general observations. I much prefer 28.04-05.
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The taper of the presence pot changed in 28.08 from linear to log. Therefore if the knob is set the same it will be darker.

Axe-Fx III Firmware Release Notes​


28.08

Added Supro 1695T amp model based on a Supro Black Magick.

Fixed Presence knob taper in PVH 6160 models.



That's the problem with these re-amp comparisons. People don't take these things into account.

You need to turn the presence up on 28.08 and 29.00.
 
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Assuming the taper in 28.02 was authentic (and the same as 28.08 and 29.00beta), here's a re-amp of the same dual-tracked riff in each of the three firmwares using the 5150 Block Letter:



Tone page remained the same between each firmware, (gain 1.8, bass 5, mids 4.5, treble 6.5, pres 8.7, depth 5, Master Vol 2) but the advanced parameters were reset to match the firmware default values for them. To me, the clips sound quite similar, which I ascribe mostly to the TS-808 in front and the IR used, but there is an attack in the 28.02 5150 Block Letter model that is not in the models in the latter firmwares. As has been mentioned by others, it's more audible on single notes, so pay particular attention to those parts in the riff. Again, it's subtle, but it is there, especially while playing.

Here's also an audio clip of a null-test of the same clips but for FW 28.02 and FW 29.00beta:



If one goes by the null test, then there's a marked difference (rightfully so and as one would expect) between the firmwares. My gripe with the newer models is more of a response and feel thing than a frequency thing, strictly speaking. And if the real amp is supposed to be like this, then I can't really complain. Either way, I can't commend Cliff highly enough for giving his time and his ear to us chuckleheads.
 
My name is mud said:
In a band if one guy got a peavey and the other a rectifier, the guy with the peavy will cry in his father’s pants after the show
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It sounds like that guy has a very complex and difficult relationship with his father.

Fro68 said:
Wasn't the original 5150 basically a copy of the Soldano SLO? Like the first Mesa Rectifier amp.
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The original 5150 was definitely "heavily influenced" by the SLO design, just like the Mesa Boogie SOLO amp (the original name for that model of 4 Dual Rectifier amps, before the other three were forgotten and the SOLO took the name of the series for itself).

But largely in the preamp, there are other changes in the amp design, power section, and transformers/etc. plus some circuit tweaks which make them all sound different even with the shared lineage.
 
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chucma said:
Ah nice update! Thank you Cliff! So cool about the amp name too, that Supro amp model just oozes character and really works well with my Fender guitars. Have been so tempted to grab the real thing and have a go with it, but afraid I might fall in love!
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I have one ..... you would !!
 
No, I get that. What I'm asking is "was the taper changed between 28.08 and 29.00b", because I wasn't comparing any FW previous to 28.08, and it sounds like the Presence taper wasn't changed between those two.

In other words: If the taper was changed in 28.08 and not in 29.00, then any differences between 28.08 and 29.00 cannot be because of the Presence taper.
 
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