Axe-Fx III Firmware 29.00 Public Beta

[cole lewis]

When exactly are you thinking the negative change in sound did occur? Raven is saying 28.05.

General amp modeling changes that happened in 28.05.
"Corrected an error in calculating the bias point of an early gain stage in amp models with five or more gain stages (likely not audible)."
"Improved Amp block output transformer modeling."
"Tweaked parameters for amps with cold clipping stages slightly to better reflect new insights and measurements."

In 28.07.
"Corrected a minor mistake in the effects loop recovery for the PVH amp models."

28.08 is when the presence knob taper is changed and most definitely creates the biggest difference in sound I've personally heard on the model.

 

[rossipedia]

When exactly are you thinking the negative change in sound did occur? Raven is saying 28.05.

General amp modeling changes that happened in 28.05.
"Corrected an error in calculating the bias point of an early gain stage in amp models with five or more gain stages (likely not audible)."
"Improved Amp block output transformer modeling."
"Tweaked parameters for amps with cold clipping stages slightly to better reflect new insights and measurements."

In 28.07.
"Corrected a minor mistake in the effects loop recovery for the PVH amp models."

28.08 is when the presence knob taper is changed and most definitely creates the biggest difference in sound I've personally heard on the model.

My comparison is between 28.08 and 29.00. I didn't mind the previous changes, but something in 29.00 changed in a way that I wasn't super stoked on, and I'm trying to get to the bottom of exactly what it is (I reverted back to 28.08 for now).

The changes to the Presence taper is something I kind of expect at this point. The Presence knob on the physical amp didn't do jack until you cranked it, so I'm used to tweaking with that particular setting on 5150-based models.

 

[Obles5]

I’ve noticed that since version 28.08 the Leveling preset no longer works. When I touch the Level Trimmer the sound disappears, and the only workaround to get everything back in order is to switch to a different preset and then return to the current one.

 

[My name is mud]

I’ve noticed that since version 28.08 the Leveling preset no longer works. When I touch the Level Trimmer the sound disappears, and the only workaround to get everything back in order is to switch to a different preset and then return to the current one.

Really ? Have done done “refresh after firmware “ in axe edit?
I m not in 28.08 yet so can’t tell

 

[Forever Again]

I’ve noticed that since version 28.08 the Leveling preset no longer works. When I touch the Level Trimmer the sound disappears, and the only workaround to get everything back in order is to switch to a different preset and then return to the current one.

There’s a preset leveler…? You learn something new everyday. At the end of the chain I thought there was just the OUT leveler.

 

[ARF]

I’ve noticed that since version 28.08 the Leveling preset no longer works. When I touch the Level Trimmer the sound disappears, and the only workaround to get everything back in order is to switch to a different preset and then return to the current one.

Just tested here running FW 29.00 Beta / AXE_Edit 1.14.17 on a Mac running Sequoia 15.5.

All worked as normal. No issues with anything in Leveling window.

 

[l4mpi]

There’s a preset leveler…? You learn something new everyday. At the end of the chain I thought there was just the OUT leveler.

It's not a separate part of the chain, just a tool in Axe Edit that allows you to quickly set the amp and output volumes, see Tools -> Preset Leveling.

 

[Obles5]

I did a reset and everything came back.

 

[unix-guy]

There’s a preset leveler…? You learn something new everyday. At the end of the chain I thought there was just the OUT leveler.

Been there for years...

 

[LiamH]

Been there for years...

I must be getting very old, seems like months to me. Cannot live without the preset leveller, and we coped for a long time without it.

Can't do anything in betas just now, but working fine in 28.08.

 

[jimmynorrisjr]

The "preset leveler" has worked for me since day one. I am on 29.00 public beta currently.

 

[James Freeman]

I think if bias excursion is heard in the preamp of a real amp, the amp is not a 'proper' designe and may not sound musically pleasing.
Very cool that the AxeFx accurately emulates the the "poor design choices" because in my personal opinion preserving classic amps in digital form is very important.

 

[Andrew Male]

I think if bias excursion is heard in the preamp of a real amp, the amp is not a 'proper' designe and may not sound musically pleasing.
Very cool that the AxeFx accurately emulates the the "poor design choices" because in my personal opinion preserving classic amps in digital form is very important.

Preamp tubes also exhibit bias excursion and too much of it can cause blocking distortion. Like power tube bias excursion, though, a little bit can help. The trick is getting the right amount.

 

[Gadget]

... Very cool that the AxeFx accurately emulates the the "poor design choices" because in my personal opinion preserving classic amps in digital form is very important.

It seems to me that we always expect an improvement in sound / tone from any update to an amp or effect.

However, if Fractal’s primary aim is accurate modelling, we have to accept that sometimes the perceived effect is a reduction in sound / tonal quality to be true to the original.

When an amp is re-mastered or an error / bug is corrected, then it can’t always be from a worse tonal perspective to a better one, but sometimes from better to worse.

Accuracy does not necessarily mean things sound ‘better’.

Greater modelling accuracy can therefore be very frustrating when the greater adherence to the real-world gear also means that it sometimes sucks in certain areas, just like the real thing does.

When someone says “this amp definitely sounds worse since the update”, then maybe it does, and that’s how it should sound.

 

[FractalAudio]

I think if bias excursion is heard in the preamp of a real amp, the amp is not a 'proper' designe and may not sound musically pleasing.
Very cool that the AxeFx accurately emulates the the "poor design choices" because in my personal opinion preserving classic amps in digital form is very important.

A good amp designer knows how to exploit bias excursion. Amps with no bias excursion are sterile and cold sounding.

The trick is to bias the tube off-center and then use bias excursion to push the bias point to the center. So when you play lightly the distortion is asymmetric and as you play harder the distortion becomes more symmetric. When you play lightly or roll off the volume the tone is warmer. When you play harder the tone is tighter. If the bias didn't shift then it would get muddy when playing harder.

Dumble understood this. Peter Diezel understands this. Bogner, maybe. Not so sure about some of the other guys.

 

[FractalAudio]

Sup?

Ok,, nothing to do with this firmware,, It's great so far, even getting some love from some I don't usually land on ,( Cameron CCV) Anyway at some point did the Presence control on the Savage change? I remember it changing character( just like my old real one) as you swept it, and it getting louder and mid'ish when you turned it down.. (can't quite remember what mine did when you turned it all the way down,,,,,,,did something though)

Anyway,,, It just seems to sweep from brittle to muffle now, like a regular presence control. Am I crazy or ????

MOSHON
DAVE

I compared the model to our reference amp this morning and the Presence control works identically to the amp.

Note that the Depth control on the amp is a switch. You would set the Depth on the model to either 0 or 10 to duplicate this behavior. Depth being controlled by a switch goes back to Peavey and their patent for a pot to control depth. If you use a pot for depth you had to pay them royalties so amp makers would use a switch to get around this. I believe the patent has expired so newer amps more often have a knob.

Also note that older versions of the Savage had a different feedback network that caused the volume to change pretty dramatically as a function of Presence. Newer versions (like our reference amp) have an added resistor that makes the Presence control behave more predictably.

 

[kit dunborg]

I compared the model to our reference amp this morning and the Presence control works identically to the amp.

Note that the Depth control on the amp is a switch. You would set the Depth on the model to either 0 or 10 to duplicate this behavior. Depth being controlled by a switch goes back to Peavey and their patent for a pot to control depth. If you use a pot for depth you had to pay them royalties so amp makers would use a switch to get around this. I believe the patent has expired so newer amps more often have a knob.

Also note that older versions of the Savage had a different feedback network that caused the volume to change pretty dramatically as a function of Presence. Newer versions (like our reference amp) have an added resistor that makes the Presence control behave more predictably.

While not a frequent user of the Savage model, I tinker with it on and off and I confirm what Dave mentioned: In the past the presence knob in the axe acted different than the current one. It acted pretty much like it does on the FAS Brootalz now, the amp would get more middy and louder turning it down. This is also noted in the Wiki for both models.

I am not saying I don't believe Cliff when he says the model is accurate, but somewhere in the past something in the model in the axe must have changed, and Dave, I think your memory serves you right...

Anyway, thanks for checking and for all the work! Time and time again!

 

[IronSean]

I'm assuming it was modelled after an older savage in the past (and that older savage was involved in the happy accident that was the Brootalz) but was updated to a newer production Savage sometime later (but the Brootalz was left alone to not mess with it given it has nothing to "correct" as it's not a real amp).

 

[kit dunborg]

I'm assuming it was modelled after an older savage in the past (and that older savage was involved in the happy accident that was the Brootalz) but was updated to a newer production Savage sometime later (but the Brootalz was left alone to not mess with it given it has nothing to "correct" as it's not a real amp).

My line of thought as well.

 

[jlynnb1]

A good amp designer knows how to exploit bias excursion. Amps with no bias excursion are sterile and cold sounding.

The trick is to bias the tube off-center and then use bias excursion to push the bias point to the center. So when you play lightly the distortion is asymmetric and as you play harder the distortion becomes more symmetric. When you play lightly or roll off the volume the tone is warmer. When you play harder the tone is tighter. If the bias didn't shift then it would get muddy when playing harder.

Dumble understood this. Peter Diezel understands this. Bogner, maybe. Not so sure about some of the other guys.

I don't know why but the 'Bogner, maybe" made me chuckle pretty good...