Axe-Fx III Firmware 26.00 Public Beta

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York Audio said:
I'm really liking this Firmware so far! It's fun to A/B real amps vs the models, so I made a couple short clips comparing my '93 Sampson era Matchless D-30 to the Matchbox D-30 and my '96 Marshall JCM Slash to the Brit Silver. The amps went into a Fractal LB-2 load box and the models used the LB-2 UK impedance curve with Speaker Drive, Speaker Compression, and Speaker Thump all at zero. Both the amps and the Axe-Fx III used the same IR and IR loading plugin in my DAW (no cab block was used in the Fractal). I used a looper pedal and started with the amp and model knobs in the same settings and fine-tuned them in by ear. I'm sure I could get closer, but it's already pretty dang close without making any drastic knob adjustments.

To me, they sound virtually identical when playing chords. It's truly remarkable, and I don't think anyone could tell the difference in a mix. Each amp's character really shines... even though both the Jubilee and the D-30 are all going through the same IR. The main difference I notice is in the transients. The models seem to have more compression (more noticeable in the Matchless). To show this, the clips start with the amp/model playing chords to show how similar they sound (no low/high cuts). The second part is meant to show the compression difference I was hearing/feeling.

If anyone knows how to lessen that compression to bring out more attack in the transients, I'd love to try your methods.

Anyway, here they are:

Marshall JCM Slash vs Brit Silver




Matchless D-30 vs Matchbox D-30




Great job, Cliff! Thank you for all of your hard work. The Axe-Fx III continues to be the best piece of musical equipment I've ever purchased.
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It’s not only compression to my ears.
Don’t really know how to phrase it but in tube amps ( especially class A or nmv amps like plexis) the attack has weight, the louder the amp the louder the weight of the attack.

And that’s just what’s missing to my ears. The general tone is perfect with fractal, I just miss that weight of the attack, and by attack I don’t mean just pick attack because even in legato with have this attack, this weight, this punch, the percusivness.

For now on Marshall modeled amps I hear a near perfect tone but still miss this part.

I think everybody that played class A, nmv amps or just really loud clean amps understand what I mean. And it’s a really crucial part of the tone.
 
Joshua_L said:
It’s not only compression to my ears.
Don’t really know how to phrase it but in tube amps ( especially class A or nmv amps like plexis) the attack has weight, the louder the amp the louder the weight of the attack.

And that’s just what’s missing to my ears. The general tone is perfect with fractal, I just miss that weight of the attack, and by attack I don’t mean just pick attack because even in legato with have this attack, this weight, this punch, the percusivness.

For now on Marshall modeled amps I hear a near perfect tone but still miss this part.

I think everybody that played class A, nmv amps or just really loud clean amps understand what I mean. And it’s a really crucial part of the tone.
Click to expand...
This reads like you need to turn up your monitoring system maybe?
 
Budda said:
This reads like you need to turn up your monitoring system maybe?
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No that’s not that problem.
It’s something you can hear also on record, it’s not a monitoring volume it’s a inner response of the amp.
A cranked amp characteristic should sound like a cranked amp characteristic with a modeler, no matter the volume.

What you say is like having a modeler that gain can only goes through 0 to 7 instead of ten and you say to buy hotter pickups.

But as I’m not fluent in English, I may express myself wrong.

to get back to the compression thing, I don’t think it’s too much compression, it’s a lack a percusiveness.

But I also may totally wrong. Just trying to explain the difference in tone and feel I have with modelers against tube amp ( and no I’m not talking about amp in te room tone)
 
Joshua_L said:
No that’s not that problem.
It’s something you can hear also on record, it’s not a monitoring volume it’s a inner response of the amp.
A cranked amp characteristic should sound like a cranked amp characteristic with a modeler, no matter the volume.

What you say is like having a modeler that gain can only goes through 0 to 7 instead of ten and you say to buy hotter pickups.

But as I’m not fluent in English, I may express myself wrong.

to get back to the compression thing, I don’t think it’s too much compression, it’s a lack a percusiveness.

But I also may totally wrong. Just trying to explain the difference in tone and feel I have with modelers against tube amp ( and no I’m not talking about amp in te room tone)
Click to expand...
Perhaps you might want to invest in a good dB meter because I can feel exactly what you are describing as “lacking” in the Axe FX if I turn my monitor loud enough.
 
TheRedDevil said:
I suspect it's an old problem. I played with Cabinet -> Preamp -> Preamp Type and occasionally changed the preamp type (at a high saturation of 6), and suddenly there was a loud bang in the speaker. Not good for my ears. E.g. changing from Vintage to Tape 35us sometimes seems to lead to the bang if I was playing before. I think that when changing the type, the output has to be deactivated in the firmware code first.
Click to expand...
The issue is not availibe if you select the preamps directly in Axe Edit, but it is there in AXEFXIII if you use the knobs and the display to scroll through. Also when scrolling to Transformer.
 
Joshua_L said:
It’s not only compression to my ears.
Don’t really know how to phrase it but in tube amps ( especially class A or nmv amps like plexis) the attack has weight, the louder the amp the louder the weight of the attack.

And that’s just what’s missing to my ears. The general tone is perfect with fractal, I just miss that weight of the attack, and by attack I don’t mean just pick attack because even in legato with have this attack, this weight, this punch, the percusivness.

For now on Marshall modeled amps I hear a near perfect tone but still miss this part.

I think everybody that played class A, nmv amps or just really loud clean amps understand what I mean. And it’s a really crucial part of the tone.
Click to expand...
Use real cabs with real speakers.
 
Joshua_L said:
No that’s not that problem.
It’s something you can hear also on record, it’s not a monitoring volume it’s a inner response of the amp.
A cranked amp characteristic should sound like a cranked amp characteristic with a modeler, no matter the volume.

What you say is like having a modeler that gain can only goes through 0 to 7 instead of ten and you say to buy hotter pickups.

But as I’m not fluent in English, I may express myself wrong.

to get back to the compression thing, I don’t think it’s too much compression, it’s a lack a percusiveness.

But I also may totally wrong. Just trying to explain the difference in tone and feel I have with modelers against tube amp ( and no I’m not talking about amp in te room tone)
Click to expand...
This firmware has everything you need as far as accurate tube amp modeling. What yore missing is the power and the means to move air.
 
Joshua_L said:
No that’s not that problem.
It’s something you can hear also on record, it’s not a monitoring volume it’s a inner response of the amp.
A cranked amp characteristic should sound like a cranked amp characteristic with a modeler, no matter the volume.

What you say is like having a modeler that gain can only goes through 0 to 7 instead of ten and you say to buy hotter pickups.

But as I’m not fluent in English, I may express myself wrong.

to get back to the compression thing, I don’t think it’s too much compression, it’s a lack a percusiveness.

But I also may totally wrong. Just trying to explain the difference in tone and feel I have with modelers against tube amp ( and no I’m not talking about amp in te room tone)
Click to expand...
Try messing with speaker related parameters (speaker drive, thump, comp and compliance) cuz that's what usually give me that kind of feel I miss with default settings.
 
Saarang Narayan said:
Perhaps you might want to invest in a good dB meter because I can feel exactly what you are describing as “lacking” in the Axe FX if I turn my monitor loud enough.
Click to expand...
That’s not what I meant, what I meant is I don’t have to turn the volume of my monitor to get gain on a non master volume amp.

When you record a pushed amp, you get that tone on the record, I just wish it was possible with a amp modélisation and ir.
Maybe it’s not the modeling of the amp, maybe it’s a missing piece between amp and ir
skydog said:
Use real cabs with real speakers.
Click to expand...
modeling has been created to avoid that solution.
skydog said:
This firmware has everything you need as far as accurate tube amp modeling. What yore missing is the power and the means to move air.
Click to expand...
Certainly, but i wish there was a modeling solution for that because it’s an important part of the tone.
It’s like the early years of modeling when everyone was complaining « where are the ghost notes » and now it’s possible and fractal made that perfectly.
DLC86 said:
Try messing with speaker related parameters (speaker drive, thump, comp and compliance) cuz that's what usually give me that kind of feel I miss with default settings.
Click to expand...
Thanks. Gonna try that.
You mean raising them or lower them?
 
Joshua_L said:
Thanks. Gonna try that.
You mean raising them or lower them?
Click to expand...
Raising them... Default values seem a bit conservative, these are the values I use, ymmv:

Speaker drive: 2.5
Thump: 2.5
Compliance: 70%
Breakup: hard
Comp: to taste (I usually aim to 2-3 dB of gain reduction, for clean amps even 5-6 dB)

PS: these are pretty much the only advanced parameters that I always tweak cuz imho they add that last 2% of realism

PPS: but I agree with others about volume, that's unavoidable to get a feel comparable to a loud tube amp
 
Joshua_L said:
That’s not what I meant, what I meant is I don’t have to turn the volume of my monitor to get gain on a non master volume amp.

When you record a pushed amp, you get that tone on the record, I just wish it was possible with a amp modélisation and ir.
Maybe it’s not the modeling of the amp, maybe it’s a missing piece between amp and ir

modeling has been created to avoid that solution.

Certainly, but i wish there was a modeling solution for that because it’s an important part of the tone.
It’s like the early years of modeling when everyone was complaining « where are the ghost notes » and now it’s possible and fractal made that perfectly.

Thanks. Gonna try that.
You mean raising them or lower them?
Click to expand...
Modeling absolutely does not eliminate the solution of speakers for live music. Sorry for being direct, but that’s just incorrect.
 
Joshua_L said:
That’s not what I meant, what I meant is I don’t have to turn the volume of my monitor to get gain on a non master volume amp.

When you record a pushed amp, you get that tone on the record, I just wish it was possible with a amp modélisation and ir.
Maybe it’s not the modeling of the amp, maybe it’s a missing piece between amp and ir

modeling has been created to avoid that solution.

Certainly, but i wish there was a modeling solution for that because it’s an important part of the tone.
It’s like the early years of modeling when everyone was complaining « where are the ghost notes » and now it’s possible and fractal made that perfectly.

Thanks. Gonna try that.
You mean raising them or lower them?
Click to expand...

Another parameter on the clean / class A and NMV
Turn on output compression
Set it to gain enhancer

On the higher gain amps I switch the output compression type to feedback

That gives a bit more of that tube amp cranked up feel and compression



DYNAMICS PAGE Input Dynamics - (Axe-Fx Ill only) Sets the strength of an input dynamics processor. When set below zero, the amp type compresses, resulting in a smoother, less dynamic sound. When set greater than zero, the amp expands, resulting in a punchier, crunchier and more dynamic sound. Note that extreme values can have undesirable side-
effects such as pumping or clipping. Output Compression - This controls the ratio of a compressor specifically tailored to reduce the output dynamic range of the amp block. A gain reduction meter shows the amount of compression when this parameter
row is selected.
Compressor Type - Sets the type of Output Compression.
• The "OUTPUT" type simply compresses the output. • The "FEEDBACK" type likewise compresses the block output, but also applies dynamics to the input of the block, so you will also get more distortion as you
play harder and less when you play softer or roll back the volume. • The "GAIN ENHANCER" type simulates the way a loud amp acoustically reinforces
the guitar for a more reactive playing experience Author's note: Try it!! Compressor Threshold - Sets the threshold of Output Compression. A lower value causes compression to
occur for quieter signals. Compressor Clarity - Used in conjunction with the other Output Compression parameters, this adjusts the bass
response of the compressor and can be used to add clarity to the low end.
 
skydog said:
Use real cabs with real speakers.
Click to expand...

This ↑. If you're comparing the Axe's output to an actual mic'd amp in another room, most people would not be able to tell the difference between the two. If you want it to sound the same as a real amp in the room with you, then use the same cab and speakers in the same room. Studio monitors and most FRFR cabs do not project sound into the room the same way as most real guitar cabs. IR's capture the frequency response of a speaker at one specific mic location, but they do nothing to recreate the way a given speaker and cab physically project sound into a space.
 
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