Axe-Fx II Firmware 18.12 Released

nznat said:
check this out, its most likely the very best overdrive ive ever tried to date, and ive tried them ALL.
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I find that hard to believe, not because I don't trust your word, but because somebody comes out with a new one about every 15 minutes.
 
Deaj said:
I did the buy/sell/trade thing with boost, overdrive, fuzz, and compressor pedals for a few years - mostly boutique stuff. Buying low and selling high made it possible to try pretty much everything without spending much more than my initial purchases. Looking at the circuits that were not gooped it became readily apparent that there's not much new under the sun (clones and variants of the Rat, Range Master, Big Muff, Fuzz Face, DynaComp, Orange Squeezer, Bluesbreaker, Tube Screamer TS9 & TS808, and others). There are some unique circuits out there but they'd be more the exception than the rule.
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So much this. I went through a DIY boutique drive building kick for a long time on the tone quest, and there is so much straight topology copying followed by a few component changes going on it is ridiculous. After playing so many for years and then looking inside and building these things thereafter, I have become ridiculously cynical about drive (specifically overdrive and boost) pedals. Especially the 'magical' ones that get gushing superlatives attached to them and you open it up and find a yet another tube screamer. The fact is overdrive is awesome: it provides an input gain increase and applies a significant eq change at the input. Someone 'discovers' this via a specific product and makes a mountain out of a mole hill; when there are a bunch of things that already do this in a very similar way.

Don't get me wrong, most of the classics are really nice pedals/designs and serve a great purpose but getting caught up in the hype of the endless parade of boutique drives is self defeating. The drive blocks on the AFX are so configurable... while new preconfigured options are ALWAYS FUN, I feel like I have more than enough rope to hang myself with on the drive block. ;)

I really don't have much use for the distortions with an AFX and its accurate amp models. Fuzzes are probably the most interesting/weirdest.
 
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zenaxe said:
Don't get me wrong, most of the classics are really nice pedals/designs and serve a great purpose but getting caught up in the hype of the endless parade of boutique drives is self defeating. The drive blocks on the AFX are so configurable... while new preconfigured options are ALWAYS FUN, I feel like I have more than enough rope to hang myself with on the drive block. ;)
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I don't understand what goes on "underneath the hood" of all of these different OD's & Dist. pedals ..., but I always chuckle when someone steps up and asks for their specific flavor of pedal to be modeled in the Axe ....

I'm guessing that if you understand how the pedal is constructed ( components, etc; ) then you could replicate ANY drive that's ever been made ....

I always thought that would be a more productive thread to start, I just don't have the knowledge to start it !
 
This whole drives discussion is an interesting one. Everybody's mileage is different, but to my sensibilities, hardware overdrives destroy the Axe-fx models, and I think it's well understood that I love my Axe-fx II. I'd always used a B7K with my bass, but I soldiered on despite not being entirely satisfied with the drive options in the Axe.

I eventually became despondent enough with the drive models in the Axe, which I primarily use for boosting/tightening, but also for giving clean amps some dirt/lead stuff, that I started using a filter block in front of the amp to give it some clean filtered oomph. But I recently had an opportunity to try an OD pedal (Green Rhino) into the front input of the Axe-fx II and immediately noticed a huge improvement over the drive block. I don't know if it's a matter of pushing guitar signal through real circuitry before the input, or if it's the way the signal interacts with the input, but there's a grit and response detail in an actual pedal that I don't hear or "feel" when I play.

I'm now rocking an Earthquaker Devices Palisades in front of my Axe-fx II and I couldn't be happier. It's a swiss army knife TS type pedal, and in the very short time period that I've had it, plenty of class settings have been found. Each to his own, but to me the drive models in the Axe-fx II don't hold a candle to the real thing in front of the input.
 
I agree - there are so many options with the drive block advanced settings, and what you can do with pre and post EQ.

I really look at the blocks and the "model" descriptions, the same way I look at DAW effect descriptions. And what I mean is, that they are descriptive enough to lead me to my intended destination, but maybe not "close your eyes and fool you with an A/B comparison." So, in the same way, as when I scroll through a list of 25 reverbs, with names like "paddle-ball court" or "grand canyon", as I listen to them, I don't keep an email open to the plug-in's manufacturer, expressing my disappointment that in my opinion, their reverb does not have the same sound as the grand canyon, or my favorite childhood paddle ball court. I take the descriptions as ways to describe them and give me a starting point. To me, I know if I choose RAT, verses TS808, that I am after a completely different kind of gain sound -- and I don't care how close those are to the real thing. I just care if it sounds good. Because if it sounds good, it is good.
 
With the tweaking options that Cliff has provided in the drive blocks, there are very few pedals that cannot be recreated within the axefx. I'm a builder much like the fellows in the previous posts. By knowing what the circuit architecture is and what has been modified, it's easy enough to get the existing drive models to behave like your favorite pedal. Plus the drive models allow for pushing the amp models with more input. You simply cannot do this with a real pedal in front of the axefx to any satisfactory degree. You just wind up clipping the converters. I have recreated all my designs (except the really weird ones) to my satisfaction. Saves me bringing them to the gig. ;)
 
I'm not clipping the converter at all. Sounds better. Feels better. No doubt about it.

And there are a ton of guys who use drive pedals with the Axe-fx II. No harm though. Whatever makes people happy.
 
Question for those that know/understand drive parameters and are good at recreating things in the Axe. My favorite drive pedal ever is the Barber Small Fry: Small Fry.html. After going through a crap ton of drives over the years (including lots of well-loved ones like the Tim, AC/RC Booster, BB Pre, Full Drive, OCD, Klon, original and reissue Tube Screamers, and a Mesa V-Twin), and the Small Fry is the only one I've stuck with and I've had it for years.

The thing is, it's incredibly versatile, so I'm sure somewhere in there the Axe can match its tones. I'm just not good at doing that. Has anyone else had experience with the Small Fry, and have some suggestions?

FYI, I'm fine still running the Small Fry pre Axe, just wondering what's possible.

Also, if this is the wrong place for this, mods feel free to move it.
 
Speculum Speculorum said:
I'm not clipping the converter at all. Sounds better. Feels better. No doubt about it.

And there are a ton of guys who use drive pedals with the Axe-fx II. No harm though. Whatever makes people happy.
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Oh I totally agree. I was speaking more to the guys who like to run a real booster into a real tube amp. I myself prefer the way my real pedals clip and feel better as well, but it's nice to know I can leave them at home if I want to.
 
mbrown3 said:
Question for those that know/understand drive parameters and are good at recreating things in the Axe. My favorite drive pedal ever is the Barber Small Fry: Small Fry.html. After going through a crap ton of drives over the years (including lots of well-loved ones like the Tim, AC/RC Booster, BB Pre, Full Drive, OCD, Klon, original and reissue Tube Screamers, and a Mesa V-Twin), and the Small Fry is the only one I've stuck with and I've had it for years.

The thing is, it's incredibly versatile, so I'm sure somewhere in there the Axe can match its tones. I'm just not good at doing that. Has anyone else had experience with the Small Fry, and have some suggestions?

FYI, I'm fine still running the Small Fry pre Axe, just wondering what's possible.

Also, if this is the wrong place for this, mods feel free to move it.
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The Small Fry has some interesting options available to it. It's basically a Timmy with a few more options, so depending on how you are setting it will determine what in the axefx to use and how to set it. What controls and switches are active? Do you use the Dynamics control?
 
R.D. said:
I don't understand what goes on "underneath the hood" of all of these different OD's & Dist. pedals ..., but I always chuckle when someone steps up and asks for their specific flavor of pedal to be modeled in the Axe ....

I'm guessing that if you understand how the pedal is constructed ( components, etc; ) then you could replicate ANY drive that's ever been made ....

I always thought that would be a more productive thread to start, I just don't have the knowledge to start it !
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This is very much how I look at it too.

I've been in the process of trying to replicate a P19 in the Axe. I have one, it's basically a fancy pants Muff, and Skreddy even posts a freq curve diagram for its tone pot, yet there's still something about it I'm missing... and I'm convinced it has to do with slew rates and other parameters that I have no idea what they mean.
 
I just recently started using the drive pedal, I've never really been much of a "drive" or "distortion" pedal fan, but I like me some fuzz factory and microsynth on my solos so I'm all like...


Everyone's all ts808 mod this, and that, and I just want the grossest nastiest fuzz I can pull out of this box! It does ok, I wish I had fuzz factory level control, and some of that weird microsynth octave stuff, but I can get it pretty nasty.


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groovenut said:
The Small Fry has some interesting options available to it. It's basically a Timmy with a few more options, so depending on how you are setting it will determine what in the axefx to use and how to set it. What controls and switches are active? Do you use the Dynamics control?
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I've got the toggle in the middle (though all three sound good) and the dynamics about midway. Dynamics knob also sounds good anywhere you put it, but typically that's where I leave it. Gain varies depends on what I'm doing, and tone control is a bit less than midway. But honestly it sounds brilliant no matter where you have it set.
 
Speculum Speculorum said:
This whole drives discussion is an interesting one. Everybody's mileage is different, but to my sensibilities, hardware overdrives destroy the Axe-fx models, and I think it's well understood that I love my Axe-fx II. I'd always used a B7K with my bass, but I soldiered on despite not being entirely satisfied with the drive options in the Axe.

I eventually became despondent enough with the drive models in the Axe, which I primarily use for boosting/tightening, but also for giving clean amps some dirt/lead stuff, that I started using a filter block in front of the amp to give it some clean filtered oomph. But I recently had an opportunity to try an OD pedal (Green Rhino) into the front input of the Axe-fx II and immediately noticed a huge improvement over the drive block. I don't know if it's a matter of pushing guitar signal through real circuitry before the input, or if it's the way the signal interacts with the input, but there's a grit and response detail in an actual pedal that I don't hear or "feel" when I play.

I'm now rocking an Earthquaker Devices Palisades in front of my Axe-fx II and I couldn't be happier. It's a swiss army knife TS type pedal, and in the very short time period that I've had it, plenty of class settings have been found. Each to his own, but to me the drive models in the Axe-fx II don't hold a candle to the real thing in front of the input.
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I've not been a big fan of the drive pedals in the AxeFX either, every once in a while I tweak one at home to where i think it's great, and then in performance it sounds sorta fake or like it does something un-natural to the amp tone, even with the mix down somewhere between 50-70%. Even in front of a mildly overdriven Fender I can't achieve the right blend of the amp's tone and the pedal's tone. Trying the old tubescreamer in front of a heavily overdriven Marshall or Boogie doesn't have the same affect within the confines of the Axe as it does in the real world. The FET Preamp is kind of nice though, i've been getting good use out of that new addition.

The drive pedals in my opinion are the current weak point of the Axe. Hopefully once Cliff has a vacation (a VERY well deserved one at that!), after an awesome G3 overhaul of all the amps in the arsenal, maybe he can figure out what the stumbling block is with the drive pedals. (no pun intended).

We all know he can do it....that Cliff is one smar focker!
 
I find the drive block sounds good but is sometimes difficult to get the levels right compared to the bypassed sound. For example My main drive used to be a bb preamp into a mess mark v, on the bb I kept the level slightly below noon and it provided a considerable boost. On the axe fx I have to nearly max out the level control to achieve unity with the bypassed signal. Also on some drive blocks I've tried boosting a dirty rhythm sound with the gain low and level high and it actually lowered the gain instead of boosted it. I love my axe fx and am sure that it will continue to improve.
 
Have to admit I struggle with the drives at times as well. I've got a lot of years using gear and own quite a few of the noted pedals. The FET works well for me and then I use EQ blocks as well, but I struggle more with fuzz or overdrive types. I'm sure they're in there, but my tweaking skills are probably the weak link. I don't need the Marshall or Vox in a box type drives- the amp models kill any need for those. Fuzzes are a different story.. I just use a few of my favorite pedals in front of the axe as needed.
 
Rotti said:
This is very much how I look at it too.

I've been in the process of trying to replicate a P19 in the Axe. I have one, it's basically a fancy pants Muff, and Skreddy even posts a freq curve diagram for its tone pot, yet there's still something about it I'm missing... and I'm convinced it has to do with slew rates and other parameters that I have no idea what they mean.
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I got a pretty close P19, and W&C Box of War (two of my fav Gilmour fuzzes) mainly by adjusting the mids cut/boost and freq, seemed to make the biggest difference, and then rolling off a fair bit of treble and tightening up the bass with the low cut. Box of War being a bit bassier and darker than the P19, but overall both are kind of dark and smooth. Raising the bias tends to help a little as well.

Also try running a boost into the pedal, or even after it, that can give some tone shaping and smoothing.

The P19 in particular was designed to go after the "Wall" tone, and part of that tone was stacked pedals. I think Marc tried to give it a bit of that tone from just one box.
 
Nice to see I'm not the only one not liking the drives as much, I've moved toward using a PEQ as a boost for all my patches that use a boost (been getting great results too).

I used to use the T808 and T808 mod a lot, I still feel like something changed after FW18 beta though. Something in the way the drives work or in the way they respond with the amps.
 
Can indicators be put into Axe Edit that allow for the user to know which amp doesn't have certain abilities / settings - like text above the switch, or much much better still, the whole switch is simply not there preferably. It seems weird to leave buttons in axe edit when they don't actually work on certain amps at all. I come across a whole lot of buttons and switches that do nothing - a whole lot of them, and makes one sit there and listen hard to see if it done anything or not. Its fine if they weren't on a specific amp model, but it would be nice to integrate these things into axe edit that stops the ongoing confusion for everyone, and stops the user sitting there wondering why nothing is happening when one is using axe edit and trying to change a setting, when in fact, it doesn't even exist on that amp. Maybe text can be added above a none functioning button? Maybe axe edit could be made to recognize amp models without certain features and auto remove the buttons - thats the best option?
 
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