AX8 vs Helix

[vick1000]

You can tweak a Helix with aftermarket IRs to get almost identical sound as an AX8, but the settings and EQ are going to be all over the spectrum compared to the AX8, which usually is pretty spot on to what a real rig would be.

 

[Panthersn]

Really??? You base this on factory presets? Did you listen to the video of Lemon Song I posted? To say the Helix doesn't sound great "Live in the mix" is asinine!! I'm using an AX8 and love it but to say it's not even close is a stretch.

LOL!! The name of this thread is "AX8 vs Helix" not I love my AX8 and my Helix also!! Its my opinion, and yes I wasn't using factory presets, Michael Britts Matchless and JCM, Morgan for cleans. Like I said the helix sounded good at home however, live in a mix with other guitars, drums & vocals the gain tones fell apart. So I repeat..... Not even close!

There is something to be said for a product that is amazing straight out of the box. I found my self tweaking and tweaking the Helix rather than playing.

I'm always amazed how thin skinned guitar players are when you give and opinion that differs from their own. We all choose different products we like and dislike and that is fine. If you like your Helix great, I'm happy for you. Your opinion isn't asinine... its your opinion.

Here is another opinion on the Helix that will not go over well:

It sounds much like my HD500 just with IRs and tons of eye candy. I must admit, I loved the scribble strips and the display!!

 

[Lenster]

P

Honestly its not even close........ LIVE IN THE MIX!!! I had the helix and LT along with the ax8. I did manage some very good tones with both the Helix & Helix LT at home The new Michael Britt Helix patches sounded good, especially the Matchless. All fell apart when I used it live in a mix (I used 2 Sigmas IRs and some Ownhammer). The overdriven as well as hi gain amps models just fizzed out even after backing down the presence and rolling off the highs in the IR settings. I first tried the Helix when it came out a few years ago and remember thinking If the first thing you have to do is scrub all factory presets (because they are horrible) and tweak tweak tweak, download IRs and then tweak more, something is wrong.

The opposite is true with the AX8. It fit well in the mix, I didn't need to tweak any of the factory patches. I download some IRs but found the stock were just as good. The only knock is the DSP usage, this was solved with turning off delays and using a Strymon delay pedal !!

I look back now and find it funny Sean Halley pitched the Eleven rack as the last unit you would need, a year later he said the same thing about the Helix (check the vids on Youtube they are still up).

Pretty sure i saw Sean Halley now in the Positive Grid camp, talking about Bias 2......

 

[tallcoolone]

My intention was not to insinuate the AX8 was the better product, just a better fit for what I was looking for. You have your opinion and I have mine. There's no definitive way to determine who's right and who's wrong

Well, I was responding to a direct comment by @chris by letting him know there are blind tests lol but it isn’t about “right or wrong”. That discussion without full interaction is akin to having a debate about who’s favorite color is “best”, And most here on the interwebs with the strongest opinions usually don’t share any of their playing or tone...just those strong opinions, which makes any sort of back and forth pretty futile

You either haven't noticed or simply ignore any differences that exist and that's fine.

I’m telling you that I haven’t seen one person be able to discern between the boxes from either soundclips, YT videos, live or in person (I had both boxes until about 8hrs ago). I’m not “ignoring” anything, I’m saying it’s not there...or at the very least the boxes can be dialed in to sound essentially identical pretty easily,

To state that we're all full of it when we offer our opinions based upon experience and that privately we know we're full of it is a bit condescending.

I actually used the term, “confirmation bias” so that synopsis of my statement is completely incorrect.

 

[Sixstring]

P

Pretty sure i saw Sean Halley now in the Positive Grid camp, talking about Bias 2......

Pitch man for hire?

 

[tallcoolone]

I'm always amazed how thin skinned guitar players are when you give and opinion that differs from their own

And I am always amazed at how some folks want to talk about music and tone with words lol. The problem with some of those opinions is how they are presented. And they are presented that way for just the effect they receive. “I can’t believe everyone can’t hear it”, “if it’s good enough for you”, “ignoring differences”...inflammatory statements purposely attempting to elicit a certain type of response

It’s not a secret or a mystery...it’s sound and tone. Press record and show us or it didn’t happen. My thoughts when I hear a piece of gear I know and use described in a way that doesn’t jive with my experience is—“garbage in garbage out”.

 

[Bakerman]

http://grammarist.com/spelling/elicit-illicit/

 

[Rex]

My thoughts when I hear a piece of gear I know and use described in a way that doesn’t jive with my experience is—“garbage in garbage out”.

Speaking of "inflammatory statements purposely attempting to elicit a certain type of response..."

 

[tallcoolone]

Speaking of "inflammatory statements purposely attempting to elicit a certain type of response..."

Press record, post the results and let everyone listen to the tone for themselves. Talking about guitar tone without posting examples of your guitar tone is the strangest accepted practice there is on these boards.

 

[tallcoolone]

http://grammarist.com/spelling/elicit-illicit/

Thanks for taking the time to read my little rant lol, got me and fixed.

 

[Panthersn]

And I am always amazed at how some folks want to talk about music and tone with words lol. The problem with some of those opinions is how they are presented. And they are presented that way for just the effect they receive. “I can’t believe everyone can’t hear it”, “if it’s good enough for you”, “ignoring differences”...inflammatory statements purposely attempting to elicit a certain type of response

It’s not a secret or a mystery...it’s sound and tone. Press record and show us or it didn’t happen. My thoughts when I hear a piece of gear I know and use described in a way that doesn’t jive with my experience is—“garbage in garbage out”.

Ahhh so now we can't give our opinion on gear unless we have a recording of the comparison, otherwise it's "garbage"... I wasn't aware of this policy on forums. I have the unfortunate pleasure to work with audio engineers twice a week and they do use words to describe sound quality.

I guess what I was trying to say is that the Helix (my opinion) has a different way of interpreting non linear sin waves associated with a distorted/overdrivin' guitar signal.

Next time I play out I will:

Let the audience and band mates know that will play the same song twice while I A/B my gear. I will also let the sound man know they we will need to gain check while I A/B. And I will bring my Ipad with qbasis and have the sound guy record both for me so I can then isolate both tracks. Then and only then will I give my opinion on the mighty Line 6 Helix.

My guess is product bias would still come to play as people will hear what they want to as soon as they know the brand being played on a track.

You might like what you hear in your ears when using the Helix live, I did not.

 

[Panthersn]

Pitch man for hire?

You are correct!!

 

[Sonofiam]

I’m telling you that I haven’t seen one person be able to discern between the boxes from either soundclips, YT videos, live or in person (I had both boxes until about 8hrs ago). I’m not “ignoring” anything, I’m saying it’s not there...or at the very least the boxes can be dialed in to sound essentially identical pretty easily,

Kudos to you for the ability to dial them in to sound identical. Had your clips been some that I found and listened to when researching, it could have made an already difficult decision even harder. I didn't want to go the AX8 route but I couldn't ignore what I heard.

Say what you will, it won't change my experience. State there is no real discernible tonal difference between them, it won't change what I heard. You have your opinion and experience and I have mine. Just because you don't agree with it or believe it is not going to change my point of view.

 

[tallcoolone]

Had your clips been some that I found and listened to when researching, it could have made an already difficult decision even harder. I didn't want to go the AX8 route but I couldn't ignore what I heard.

Say what you will, it won't change my experience

Why on earth would I want to? Although I haven’t owned an AX8 I did use an AXEIIXL daily for 2yrs. I’m not “against” people choosing a Fractal product, I am “against” mediocre at best yet needy for attention “players” swaying anyone’s opinions on a high end purchase just because they want some sort of weird reinforcement.

 

[chris]

My point is that there is no underlying "sound" that enables anyone to discern one box from the other. I've played both of them for hundreds of hours both live and at lower volume. Of course this is the Fractal forum so Fractal is "best", which is fine for fan boy purposes but in real life both get you there. Which I assume is why @chris backed off his strong statement by not replying to my "challenge" at all..

lmao i didn't back off anything. i simply didn't see your post because you've been on my ignore list for a long time. i only saw this post just now.

make up in your mind what you want. regardless, i don't need to respond to any challenges ever. did you ever post those clips?

for the record, i think Line 6 has done a great job over the years with their products, and would most likely be using them for modeling if Fractal hadn't introduced the Axe-Fx. one of my main gig partners uses a Amplfi thingie. we spent a few hours dialing in his tones and got some very usable high gain tones. sounds great. the Helix can sound great too. i will say that when i take my AX8 to the gig, comparing our high gain tones, the AX8 definitely has a different - some would say better - sound, but it doesn't really matter that much.

if i'm a "fanboy" for liking FAS products more than other products and teaching people how to use them, then that is a crazy definition of the word.

 

[Rex]

if i'm a "fanboy" for liking FAS products more than other products and teaching people how to use them, then that is a crazy definition of the word.

That's the standard definition. If you don't like what I like, you're a fanboy.

"Fanboy" is one of those words like "whatever." You can use it to dis anybody without having to resort to anything meaningful.

 

[tallcoolone]

Ahhh so now we can't give our opinion on gear unless we have a recording of the comparison, otherwise it's "garbage"... I wasn't aware of this policy on forums.

It’s not a “policy”—I point that out pretty clearly when I state:

Talking about guitar tone without posting examples of your guitar tone is the strangest accepted practice there is on these boards.

Yes, if you are asking whether or not I question the vailidity of random anonymous opinions...yeah I definitely do. If you have the wherewithal to yap on a forum then you have the wherewithal to post your playing and tone.

I have the unfortunate pleasure to work with audio engineers twice a week and they do use words to describe sound quality.

Yeah yeah...again, press “RECORD” and show us.

 

[chris]

If you have the wherewithal to yap on a forum then you have the wherewithal to post your playing and tone.

Yeah yeah...again, press “RECORD” and show us.

please stop challenging people. it seems you have moved on from Fractal, and if so, i'm not sure why you're here challenging its forum members.

 

[Panthersn]

It’s not a “policy”—I point that out pretty clearly when I state:



Yes, if you are asking whether or not I question the vailidity of random anonymous opinions...yeah I definitely do. If you have the wherewithal to yap on a forum then you have the wherewithal to post your playing and tone.



Yeah yeah...again, press “RECORD” and show us.

Ok ok, I get it now, you are just looking to pick a fight, and I took the bait.

You do realize you are on a fractal forum talking about Line 6 & a product that you have not owned. If you like the Helix great, play it, record with it, tour with it..etc. Go to the Line 6 forum and tell everyone that the Helix sounds just as good as fractal. You will be their hero, and may just find the validation you are looking for.

 

[chris]

Go to the Line 6 forum and tell everyone that the Helix sounds just as good as fractal. You will be their hero, and may just find the validation you are looking for.

Careful, that’s exactly what he said other people are doing.

I am “against” mediocre at best yet needy for attention “players” swaying anyone’s opinions on a high end purchase just because they want some sort of weird reinforcement.