AX8 vs Helix

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Hansen

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Anybody who has view on the sound differences between these two? I have used Axe for years and I am very happy with the unit.
 
I have an Axe 8 and an Axe FX XL and have had a Helix.
Helix has some very nice models and some excellent drive pedals, and a good interface and feature set.
I like the Axe 8 better in terms of Amp modeling by a fair margin for what I play.
 
I've come to the AX8 from using the Helix for about 18 months.

Sound wise, the AX8 is so much better IMO - especially around the dynamics and touch sensitivity of the amps. It just sounds like it has a lot more 'realism' to it. Plus, the huge amount of amps and the different parameters that can be edited is awesome.

However, the Helix is much easier to edit on the fly - although having said that, once you get used to it the AX8 is pretty simple.
 
Owned AX8, but let it go foolishly (but have and XL+ en route to me now so looking forward to getting back in to it!) tried the helix when it first came out, didn't gel with it, found it far too hard to get tones I liked out of it vs the AX8 which I had at the time, so let it go. Picked up a Helix LT a while ago as seemed the firmware had involved somewhat and I was curious. Thought it was better than I remembered not enough to keep so let it go again.. personally, for me I prefer the amp tones from Fractal, or Kemper profiler (with the right profiles of course)

Being superficial, I was intrigued by the cool looking interface, which is really easy to use btw!!, but twice bitten now, I wouldn't be tempted away from an AX8 for one..
 
There are many many threads like both here and elsewhere. On this forum, you are going to find a lot of people prefer the AX8 - Go to the L6 forum and the situation might be different.

I tried the Helix once in headphones at a tradeshow - didn't like it at all - Then I tried in a friends studio. It was definitely better. In a mix, I would have a hard time telling it apart from the AX8. But I still prefer the AX8.

All information you could possibly want on this topic is already out there :D

You could download the Helix Native demo and try for yourself vs. the AxeFX.
 
I've had a Helix a few times (currently have one now in fact). I'm a long-time Fractal user (have an XL+ right now) so anything I think should be taken with a grain of salt, but...
1. I think the amp modelling sounds much better on Fractal units. The Helix sounds/feels a bit "plasticy" for lack of a better word. Clear stuff sounds good for the most part, but it starts to go downhill as soon as gain is added.
2. The way the signal chain is constructed on the Fractal (using the grid) makes much more sense to me. You don't have to worry about which processor is doing what, you just put things where you want and link them as desired.
3. The reverbs sound better on the Fractal units. But other effects on the Helix sound just as good for my purposes. There are some "obvious" things that are missing when compared to Fractal units (you can apply ducking to any Fractal delay, for example, but only to a specific Helix delay). But in other cases, the relatively stripped down parameters can make dialing in the effects easier.
4. Having the scribble strips is great. Specifically the fact that they automatically "adapt" to the specific block you are using. So instead of a generic Drive1, you'll see Screamer or Klon or whatever. And you can rename them if you don't like the names they default to. Can't overstate how great this is.

I don't think this is Fractal snobbery speaking; I had an Amplifire and thought it was great; it can't do "as much" as my Fractal, but I could easily dial in tones that I liked almost just as much. I've heard plenty of great Helix tones, so I'm sure they're in there. It's just difficult for me to pull them out.
-
Austin
 
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Disclaimer: I currently do not own an AX8 yet, but will probably purchase one today (got lucky, they are on sale $100 off). I bought a Helix LT on Oct. 6th from one of the big box guitar stores, and am still within my 45 day return period. Before purchasing the Helix I did a lot of reading on this topic at various forums & online articles, and came to the conclusion that I have to try both and decide which one works for me.

The gist of what most people say is that "you can get good ones out of both of them", but apparently with the AX8 it's easier to dial in something good. You will also hear that "editing on the unit is easier with the Helix, but it doesn't matter because AX8 Edit is great." I will also add that after a few weeks of using the Helix, I think the Helix computer editor is "not great" for a few reasons. Right now I am leaving the Helix on the floor so that I can use my feet for the looper, stomp & scene switching, but edit with my computer mouse. I believe that Line 6 may be working on a new / improved computer editor, so I won't go into detail about its quirks, but am hoping that AX8 Edit will be better.

There are tradeoffs between each unit for sure. Some things may be pros to one person, cons to another, and not important to someone else. Aside from price, here are some of the things that I am considering (aside from how they sound):

- AX8 can only do 1 amp block per preset without a noticeable audio gap while switching from one amp to the other. Helix can do this as long as both amps are in the same preset and switched via snapshots or a stomp switch. AxeFx can do this too, just not the AX8.
- Placement of switches -- none of the material I've read yet mentioned this, but the number and placement of switches for me seems problematic on the Helix. I must have really wide feet because I often find myself hitting the wrong switch or accidentally hitting 2 switches when I mean to hit one. Hoping the AX8 will be better.
- Helix has a dedicated headphone jack, AX8 does not, so you would need to use outs with either a powered mixer or powered headphones to use them.
- Helix comes with a built-in expression pedal. This could go either way, depends on whether or not you want an expression pedal built-in to the unit. I will say that the first Helix the store gave me was a floor model or open box, and the expression pedal was busted (it was not on its fulcrum / rocker). So it must be breakable. If it does break, the LT only gives you 1 port for an additional expression pedal, the full Helix gives you 3 I believe. I took mine back and got a replacement the next day.
- Line 6 will try to cross-sell you on at least one of its other products, the Variax guitar, via the Helix. If you combine a Variax guitar with a Helix, you can do some things when combining them -- such as using presets (maybe snapshots) to change the tuning of the guitar, using knobs on the guitar to control Helix parameters, etc. I don't have a Variax and don't want one yet, but do not enjoy trying to be cross-sold other products. YMMV. Also the Line 6 preset exchange, CustomTone, you will find a lot of presets made for Variax.
- The AX8 seems to have a lot more flexibility when it comes to switch assignment. With the Helix LT, you have to set a global preference for how the screen maps to the switches. You can do things like 4 stomps plus 4 scenes (top / bottom interchangable), as well as 8 snapshots or 8 stomps. But as far as I can tell, you can't mix & match with custom assignments, and there is no way to have a switch to a scene toggle like there is on AX8. I also found that when in an 8 snapshots mode or 4 stomps / 4 snapshots mode, it's not intuitive how to get at things like stomps 5-6 or snapshots 5-6, going back to preset / bank select, etc.
- Community. FAS has been at this a lot longer, and has a much larger community of active users in places like this forum. Guides compiled by users like Yek are as of yet unmatched in Line 6. There is helixhelp.com, but it is nowhere near as detailed as yek's guides. I have even been using them to cheat on the amps & drive blocks that Line 6 also has modeled.

I have a feeling that after I try out the AX8 I will either end up returning the Helix or only keeping it as a practice board, but not sure yet.
 
After I bought the AX8 and played it for a while, I figured I might as well look into the Helix (easy to return at my local Guitar Center). So, I headed down and had them hook it up to a nice QSC monitor and had at it for about an hour and a half. First of all, I hated the feel of the built in foot controller. I like my Mission pedals so much more. Next, I played around with my default test types, clean Fenders and semi crunchy Marshalls. The amps sounded pretty good, and I am sure loading some better IR's would make a world of difference, but even with knowing how to tweak the cabinet EQ, something sounded a bit off. Probably could be made to sound right with some work however. Delays and reverbs sounded great. Other effects seemed fine as well, but I didn't go deep with them. Testing the drive pedals, a big deal for me, my go to TS9 and Klon sounds were great. However, I found the fuzz (I think a Arbiter Fuzz Face) just off. Would not clean up with the guitar volume right. I liked the amp choices in the AX8 better as well. The factory IR's in the Fractal are far superior, and I think many users will be more than satisfied with those. Not sure, but perhaps the Helix computer editor is deeper and some of those issues could be worked around.
So between the expression pedal I would never use, and the fuzz models not working right, I didn't even take it home. I would say the only two things I loved about the Helix were the interface, it is fantastic, and lack of DSP limits (so for those of you like more complex amp/efx chains, I would recommend you check it out). Honestly, if it was smaller, without the clunky expression pedal, I might have taken it home to work with more.
No regrets about the AX8 for me.
 
Being as you have stated you are a Axe user, so you must know that the Helix cannot compete with the AX8 when it comes to the quality and number of the amp sims.

The AX8 has the same amps as the Axe Fx does, baring the mic portion of the speaker sim and the input impedance circuit that is present in Axe FX.
 
I've had a Helix a few times (currently have one now in fact). I'm a long-time Fractal user (have an XL+ right now) so anything I think should be taken with a grain of salt, but...
1. I think the amp modelling sounds much better on Fractal units. The Helix sounds/feels a bit "plasticy" for lack of a better word. Clear stuff sounds good for the most part, but it starts to go downhill as soon as gain is added.
2. The way the signal chain is constructed on the Fractal (using the grid) makes much more sense to me. You don't have to worry about which processor is doing what, you just put things where you want and link them as desired.
3. The reverbs sound better on the Fractal units. But other effects on the Helix sound just as good for my purposes. There are some "obvious" things that are missing when compared to Fractal units (you can apply ducking to any Fractal delay, for example, but only to a specific Helix delay). But in other cases, the relatively stripped down parameters can make dialing in the effects easier.
4. Having the scribble strips is great. Specifically the fact that they automatically "adapt" to the specific block you are using. So instead of a generic Drive1, you'll see Screamer or Klon or whatever. And you can rename them if you don't like the names they default to. Can't overstate how great this is.

I don't think this is Fractal snobbery speaking; I had an Amplifire and thought it was great; it can't do "as much" as my Fractal, but I could easily dial in tones that I liked almost just as much. I've heard plenty of great Helix tones, so I'm sure they're in there. It's just difficult for me to pull them out.
-
Austin

I had a Helix for 2 months to play with [courtesy of a very kind buddy]
gonna have to agree with all of the above...
and to add to each point above:
1: tone wise the Helix is good but I personally felt the Axe-FX had a little something extra. the biggest difference though in the modelling wasn't the tone, it was the feel.. especially at the hi-gain end of things... the Helix hi-gain tone was nice sounding, but had a mid-gain feel [in my opinion]
2: nothing beats the Grid.. from where I'm sat, the Grid is and always has been a major trump card for the Axe.. a master stroke
3: agree with this too.. and to add,
- the Helix pitch-shifter is absolute sh1te.. cannot handle chords.. +8ve is tinny, metallic and generally nasty.. -8ve lacks girth..
- multi-tap delay is useless if you need independent delays to randomly interact.. the Helix simply cannot do this
- I've always complained that the Axe phaser is too polite and not chewy enough like those nasty old 70's stomps.. the Helix is even more polite and even less chewy
- the Helix chorus is gorgeous
- the Helix analog delays sound lovely.. loved the tone from them..
- no input-trim or equivalent for delay and reverb blocks [which for me is a killer feature not to have because of the way I use it when morphing]
4: yes.. a very good and useful feature.. but not one that I personally was interested in because of the way I do things..

in addition: Snapshots
this is equivalent to Scenes in the Axe.. but...
Snapshots are hugely more powerful than Scenes because the go down to parameter level..
if Scenes in the Axe had the same capabilities as the Helix Snapshot, my presets would be considerably smaller and the grid layout would be considerably less complex..
the Snapshot feature is absolutely superb..

from the user perspective.. the Helix is easy, intuitive and a fun unit to use..
no it cannot do what I make the Axe do.. not even close..
however, despite it's limitations, it is a very good and well thought out unit..
 
>"I'm very happy with it"

Then why are you asking? :p

The Axe is top of the line, and it sounds it.
The Helix sounds great for clean, good for dirt, and alright for gain. It's significantly more user-friendly though.

If you're playing live I don't think the differences would be clear enough to worry.
 
*** WARNING *** epic long post...


So.. I’ve owned two Helix’s (floor units), two Kempers, the Positive Grid Bias Rack and an Axe-ii and now the AX8…


Suffice to say I’ve been on the modeller merry-go-round for a few years now.


Helix Pro’s and Cons:

Wow. Amazing interface – best out of the modellers out there. Kills them all for this.

Super easy and user friendly.

Light up stomp switches/scribble strips which (like the AX8) can differ from preset to preset (you can have a global setting or change as you please)

The scribble strips can be customised colour-wise. If you’ve got a distortion pedal and you want it be red, change it to red.

Can actually make adjustments on the fly INCREDIBLY EASY and save presets seamlessly which the others just cannot do.

Assigning stomps to presets wherever and whenever you want.

Can do ‘scene’ mode (they call it SNAPSHOTS) which is seamless and super effective. In SNAPSHOT mode, you can have 2-3 amps, OR, you can have one amp with various settings:

FOR example, SNAP 1 = amp settings all at noon

SNAP 2 = amp settings at 3’, with gain and master boosted slightly for lead

SNAP 3 = all amp settings at 9’ with treble backed off completely… etc etc. No need for a FILTER/BOOST block to do a lead.

Has built-in exp pedal which obviously doubles up as whatever the hell you please.

Has 4 FX loops so you can feed your fav KOKO BOOST or EVH Flanger etc etc.. or another amp/preamp, kitchen sink etc.. Can use this ‘before’ or ‘after’ the loop.

Seems to work really well in 4CM unlike the others… though, more time probably needs to be spent with the others to get them working good too..


The only real let-down of the Helix is that there’s only really a handful of good usable dirty amp sims, whereas the Fractal stuff seems to be endless. Same applies to cab sims.. they are just better out of the box with the Fractals. I needed 3rd party IRs to get some good FRFR tones with my Helix whereas the Fractals is plug-and-play. And, they don’t do firmware upgrades very often at all.. and sometimes the firmware update itself can be a pain in A55.. Other than that, it’s a damn good device.


Kemper:

Didn’t spend enopuh time with them (had the non-powered one and then the powered one). The powered one’s in-built S.S amp is very ordinary. The Positive Grid Bias Rack power amp absolutely destroys the powered Kemper’s built-in amp. Even with the time that I did spend with it, which included profiling a couple amps, it sounded good, but not great. Still trying to work out if it’s more suited for FRFR than a power amp + cab. YMMV though depending on your experience.

The user interface on the Kemper is a joke… seriously, may as well use an 80’s casio calculator..?! Hence not very intuitive. At least you have AX-Edit/AX8-Edit/Helix-Edit..

Sounds and tones.. how deep is the rabbit hole? Kemper users love Kemper and Fractal users love Fractal. Ask Devon T – he owns and uses both. Side-by-side at a gig… who’s gonna turn around and say “oh jeeze that guy’s HBE on his AX8 totally kills that other guitarist’s EVH Kemper profile…” ain’t no-one gonna say that!

There’s more to the Kemper but to me it’s seems more finicky than the other modellers.



Positive Grid Bias Rack:

Kicks the Powered Kemper in the vag1na for thump/realness. In fact, out of all the modellers, this unit actually sounds the most ‘natural’ or ‘real’ out of them all.

25 amps models to choose from (or remove and add… but the long and short of it is, you can have any 25 amps at a time.. so if there’s some that you don’t like or gel with, delete them and put more in). You can make amps from scratch, you can mess around with and alter the transformers/biasing/tubes, etc etc. It’s endless. If you actually know how real amps work and how they respond, you’ll successfully be able to use this device. You can also visually customise your ideal amp head and name it whatever you like. Pretty cool actually.

However, to really get this working especially in a band situation, you really need a midi controller of some sort in order to be able to go from preset to preset, channel to channel etc. In fact, the Helix Floor would be perfect for this. Absolutely perfect coz you can feed it through one of the Helix’s 4 loops.

Otherwise, for it’s price point, it’s a bloody good device.



The AX8:

This is the overall winner for me. No, it doesn’t have the built in exp pedal like the Helix and nor does it have the same user interface (would make it perfect if it did).

No, it can’t profile other amps/preamps etc like the Kemper does.

No it doesn’t have the ability to mix two amps like the Axe-ii.

But it does everything else better than the rest. It’s portable, it’s relatively small for what it is/does. The sounds/tones speak for themselves. The AX8 wins everyday of the week.



THE OBVIOUS DISCLAIMER… What I have shared above is based on my first-hand experiences that I’ve had with all 4 modellers/profilers. Again, your mind may vary.
 
I've always been a pedals guy, into a nice Valve (Tube) amp - Carr Skylark at the moment.

This year, I was struggling with the size/weight of my pedalboard (based on a Gigrig G2), so got a Helix LT as a light pedalboard.

Initially I nearly returned the Helix but over some weeks, grew to really like it - to the point that I preferred it to the pedalboard, and decided to sell my G2 etc.

Because of this decision, I decided to try an AX8 - and utterly loved it.

Helix Pros:

Editing on the unit
Scribble strips/performance view
built in headphone amplifier
tape delay is easier to get a nice tape sound on - but you can get there on the AX8
Helix can be made to sound really good
Pre-amps, so you can use those as 'drive pedals' in front of an amp
Snapshots are much more powerful than scenes, much more
More CPU, I can have 4 amps - all at once if I want.

AX8 Pros:

Almost everything else!

Using AX-Edit the editing is easy, using the footswitches is much more flexible.

But the big thing for me - was that I just love the sound, the amp models have a realism and weight to the sound that I recognise and enjoy. The Helix took literally weeks to learn how to get the right sounds out of them, various tricks etc to get it to react more naturally.

This isn't just the sounds themselves but also the position of the controls - I found the Helix lacking guitar appropriate bottom end and also the control positions is off - meaning it's very easy to make things too compressed (for example) by adding too much gain.

With the AX8 - I pulled up an amp and a cab, and it sounded right.

Helix was sold within 2 weeks of getting the AX8.

I would love the following on the AX8 - more than one amp block, coloured rings around the pedals (for ease of spotting), and most importantly the snapshot automation of the Helix.

I would certainly pay the AXE-FX II price for a two processor version of the AX as well.

But apart from that - completely happy.

I'm new here, so can't post the link - but I've documented the journey on thefretboard - where my username is peteri
 
To get more of an honest opinion, go post this at TGP. :confused:

what-you-did-there-i-see-it.thumbnail.jpg



TGP Is HELIX fan boy central.... I left that place and haven't been back... well only to look at the funny gif and pics threads.
 
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