Amp Shootout: Matrix GT800FX vs. VHT 2/90/2

[Soopahmahn]

Regarding weight, it seems both weigh 14 lbs?

1000->1540->2000 = 10 lbs, 14 lbs, 14 lbs. You're right.

It would be nice if Mark Day could chime in too, regarding his use of the 1540L... After he ditched his Art SLA-2.

I'm pretty sure he stated that it was better - i.e. more detailed and clearer. Search... EDIT: I see nothing on this board on this topic. Perhaps it was in a YouTube video.

 

[iggypop]

1000->1540->2000 = 10 lbs, 14 lbs, 14 lbs. You're right.

I'm pretty sure he stated that it was better - i.e. more detailed and clearer. Search...

You´re right, he said that it´s better than the Art, over at Rig-Talk, I pasted it here... but I´d like to hear more detailed info about his experience with the Carvin...

 

[Thomas-Hawk]

Mark hasn't ditched his SLA-2. In fact, he was using it when he demo'd his rig for me back on May 4th when I visited him. I think the Carvin he may have mentioned was someone else's that he had tried at one time. When I commented on how good the SLA-2 sounded in his rig, he said he thought Carvin amps were good too. Obviously, we'll let Mark give the definitive answer here.

 

[paulmapp8306]

LOL

Or should I sell al my stuff before the world comes to an end. :lol

Hasnt that already happened in the last few days? im sure I read some evangelist in the US stating it was going to end last weekend.

 

[smilefan]

I'd certainly like to try one of these out, but aren't you admitting that it "does something" that a reference model amplifier does not, ergo, it has introduced some type of non-linearity that you find pleasing in concert with the Axe-Fx modeling? I'm not saying that's not a good thing. I'm just trying to be clear.

BTW, are you running firmware 11.0 yet? I wonder if the new improvements in non-linear component behavior that Cliff has modeled might deliver more "mojo" through said "stiff" hi-fi amp for you.

I'd love to try one of these Matrix amps in my hi-fi at home - the Carvin DCM1000 doesn't hold a candle to my trusty Rotel class A/B stereo amp, but it's not terrible.

I my opinion it did not have the typical response of a reference amp. Good. I've never heard a reference unit sound worth a damn with the Axe. Yet so many love the response of tube power sections with it. Even Atomic offers tube powered amps for the Axe. What does that say? It says to me that unless you are using a state-of-the-art FRFR monitoring system (which none of us can afford), the Axe's mojo is helped by tubes. You give up razor sharp clarity, but you get warmth, fatness, bounce, punch. I loved my VHT because it seemed to "partner" with my Axe. The two together gave me a more palpable "amp-in-the-room" effect than anything else I tried.

Dont know if we ran firm 11.0. The Axe was Claxor's.

Rotels are the bomb. They were the British stereo amp standard for years. Killer warmth for an S/S unit. Like taking a warm bath in music. Not surprised it outclassed Carvin. I have heard Carvin stuff for years, as they are based in So Cal. Good products, but not "great" products. I'll try to demo some of the new line of Carvin power amps this weekend (Hollywood store), but I'm not holding my breath. The Matrix was pretty impressive.

 

[Soopahmahn]

Rotels are the bomb. They were the British stereo amp standard for years. Killer warmth for an S/S unit. Like taking a warm bath in music. Not surprised it outclassed Carvin. I have heard Carvin stuff for years, as they are based in So Cal. Good products, but not "great" products. I'll try to demo some of the new line of Carvin power amps this weekend (Hollywood store), but I'm not holding my breath. The Matrix was pretty impressive.

Please keep us updated! Should be a good comparison if you can do a good A/B.

 

[mhenson42]

Yes, Cliff uses a discontinued Carvin model, I remember Mo was looking for one. Is Cliff´s a MOSFET amp? I doubt the Matrix would sound much different from the Carvin. They´re a bigger company, hence these lower prices they´re able to charge for their equipment.

I hooked up with Mo and some other guys on Sunday. We compared one guy's Marshall 9200 tube power amp to the Carvin F1200 Mo bought. Though the F1200 sounded good, I think everyone felt the Marshall was the clear winner.

 

[guittarzzan]

Uh...guys...if you're planning on getting the AxefxII, isn't this entire conversation a bit irrelevant?
The Axe2 is a different animal and what may be the "best" for your Ultra etc, may not the be the "best" for the Axe2.
I'm sitting on two tube power amps and would happily sell both if a solid state amp is the way to go, but none of us really knows yet.

Ok, I'll shut up now.

Steve

 

[qingcong]

FWIW the Carvin power supply's switching frequency is a miserable 130 KHz compared to the 1 MHz of the Matrix amp. That's a valid design change for the better, not that everything else designed around the power section is necessarily better or worse. But a higher frequency means less dead time from the MOSFET section, which should translate into smoother performance.

Actually, for power supply design, a switching freq of 130k for a 1000W system is pretty damn fast. Most kW systems I design are in the 30-50kHz range, but our company's applications are for industrial use, not audio. The smooth performance you refer to must be voltage regulation. For isolated power supply designs, they usually use an optocoupler for the feedback loop. The bandwith of the opto is typically 8kHz, so the bandwith of the voltage loop is always relatively pretty slow, under 5kHz. The bandwith of the voltage loop is the speed in which the system can respond to a load disturbance. So a 1MHz vs. 130kHz switching frequency doesn't really make a huge difference in voltage regulation, necessarily. What 1MHz allows you to do is decrease the size of certain magnetic components.

 

[Sixstring]

Uh...guys...if you're planning on getting the AxefxII, isn't this entire conversation a bit irrelevant?
The Axe2 is a different animal and what may be the "best" for your Ultra etc, may not the be the "best" for the Axe2.
I'm sitting on two tube power amps and would happily sell both if a solid state amp is the way to go, but none of us really knows yet.

Ok, I'll shut up now.

Steve

I don't think it's irrelevant in this case. A traditional guitar cab was used for the comparison of both amps. The new high resolution cab sims that are in the Axe ll aren't a factor as they wouldn't have been used in this comparison. The new amp sims might come into play with over all sound but if your using them as the baseline it shouldn't make a difference as the results should be the same. The guitar cab and amp sims being used are a given which lets you scrutinize the differences between the amps being used much easer.

Now if a lot of different FR cabs were brought into this equation it would make the testing much more involved and time consuming which is probably the main reason some like to stick with a traditional guitar cab. The down side of doing this is that all the versatility the Axe has to offer is pretty much rendered useless.

 

[qingcong]

I talked with some engineers from Matrix. They confirmed the SMPS switching freq to be 85kHz for the 2kW power amp.

 

[acbarros]

I own a GT800FX and I´m A/B testing it against my 1U Rocktron Velocity 300. It´s a GREAT power amp, I´m loving it and I really intend to put it in my 4U Gator as my final solution (HAHA doubt it) for GIGS . But for 4 days I´m trying to make it sound as good as the Velocity (bridged -300W) thru my 1x12 cab loaded with a EVM 12L (cab sim ON) but without success. And I´ve tried paulmapp8306 EQ tips too, but they weren´t enough. I still haven´t tried tweak the amp block parameters however. BTW, I'd like not have to tweak the Axe as I didn't have to do this to make the Rocktron sound very good.

For now all I have to say is that the Rocktron Velocity 300 delivers me thru the EVM 12 L better tones than the GT800 does and better than I get thru my KRK Rokit 8 that I use to build my patches (the tone in essence is the same but the EVM vanishes the plastic harsh).

Nevertheless I´m still testing everything and that´s definitely not my final conclusion about that. And whatever it is I´ll keep both as I intend to keep a rig for GIGs with the AXE II and a backup rig with the Ultra.

 

[smilefan]

I own a GT800FX and I´m A/B testing it against my 1U Rocktron Velocity 300. It´s a GREAT power amp, I´m loving it and I really intend to put it in my 4U Gator as my final solution (HAHA doubt it) for GIGS . But for 4 days I´m trying to make it sound as good as the Velocity (bridged -300W) thru my 1x12 cab loaded with a EVM 12L (cab sim ON) but without success. And I´ve tried paulmapp8306 EQ tips too, but they weren´t enough. I still haven´t tried tweak the amp block parameters however. BTW, I'd like not have to tweak the Axe as I didn't have to do this to make the Rocktron sound very good.

For now all I have to say is that the Rocktron Velocity 300 delivers me thru the EVM 12 L better tones than the GT800 does and better than I get thru my KRK Rokit 8 that I use to build my patches (the tone in essence is the same but the EVM vanishes the plastic harsh).

Nevertheless I´m still testing everything and that´s definitely not my final conclusion about that. And whatever it is I´ll keep both as I intend to keep a rig for GIGs with the AXE II and a backup rig with the Ultra.

What is the volume like on the Rocktron? At 150W stereo it doesn't seem like it would be enough for bigger gigs. Have you had any problems? I have read lots of complaints about Rocktron's build quality and reliability (I have not checked one out myself).

 

[teddis]

I had one.....it was okay..... It is VERY heavy, and had electrical floor noise all the the time.

 

[RDeraz]

I hooked up with Mo and some other guys on Sunday. We compared one guy's Marshall 9200 tube power amp to the Carvin F1200 Mo bought. Though the F1200 sounded good, I think everyone felt the Marshall was the clear winner.

oh no!not again.this can mean omly one thing,Mo is over at the Matrix site.or on Evilbay searching for a VHT 2:90:2.

 

[paulmapp8306]

I own a GT800FX and I´m A/B testing it against my 1U Rocktron Velocity 300. It´s a GREAT power amp, I´m loving it and I really intend to put it in my 4U Gator as my final solution (HAHA doubt it) for GIGS . But for 4 days I´m trying to make it sound as good as the Velocity (bridged -300W) thru my 1x12 cab loaded with a EVM 12L (cab sim ON) but without success. And I´ve tried paulmapp8306 EQ tips too, but they weren´t enough. I still haven´t tried tweak the amp block parameters however. BTW, I'd like not have to tweak the Axe as I didn't have to do this to make the Rocktron sound very good.

For now all I have to say is that the Rocktron Velocity 300 delivers me thru the EVM 12 L better tones than the GT800 does and better than I get thru my KRK Rokit 8 that I use to build my patches (the tone in essence is the same but the EVM vanishes the plastic harsh).

Nevertheless I´m still testing everything and that´s definitely not my final conclusion about that. And whatever it is I´ll keep both as I intend to keep a rig for GIGs with the AXE II and a backup rig with the Ultra.

Ultimately, If you try it and prefer something else, then that something else is for you. No single solution is for everyone.

Having said that, all amps are different. The Velocity is a weird beast. the front pannel controls alter feedback loops and stuff. Ultimately its not a flat freq amp, and as with true valvr amps you will have to do a little tweeking in the amp block - mainly damp/sag parameters. The dead give away is your statement about the Rocktron sounding better then the Rokits. Thoses speakers s a pretty good, flat, monitors and are giving you a muchbetter reflection of whats comming our of the axe than the Rocktron is. the Matrix is going to be closer to the Rokits that the rocktron. What you "should" be doing (I say should because its more technically correct , but of course if it sounds right it is right - and your main use is live so??) is tweeking until your sounds are right on the Rokits, then trying to reproduce them live.

Still - whatever gets you smiling.

 

[acbarros]

Ultimately, If you try it and prefer something else, then that something else is for you. No single solution is for everyone.

Having said that, all amps are different. The Velocity is a weird beast. the front pannel controls alter feedback loops and stuff. Ultimately its not a flat freq amp, and as with true valvr amps you will have to do a little tweeking in the amp block - mainly damp/sag parameters. The dead give away is your statement about the Rocktron sounding better then the Rokits. Thoses speakers s a pretty good, flat, monitors and are giving you a muchbetter reflection of whats comming our of the axe than the Rocktron is. the Matrix is going to be closer to the Rokits that the rocktron. What you "should" be doing (I say should because its more technically correct , but of course if it sounds right it is right - and your main use is live so??) is tweeking until your sounds are right on the Rokits, then trying to reproduce them live.

Still - whatever gets you smiling.

I´m not saying that I prefer this or that, am I? I´m only telling everybody in this forun about my first experience with this amp and maybe getting some tips from helpful people.
And I´m not a newbie with these stuff who doesn´t know what I´m doing.

That said I´ll reaffirm: the Rocktron (bridged) is closer to the Rokits tones up to now in my A/B test than the Matrix without tweaking the Axe amp block. I´m NOT saying that the Matrix can´t be closer or it’s worse than the Rocktron.

"The Rokits delivers better reflection of what is coming out of the axe than the Rocktron is". I didn´t say that either!!! I said that the EVM vanishes the plastic harsh that I can hear thru the Rockits (and thru other monitors that I own) and sometimes this brings better (warmer for me) tones.

At last, I´d like to apologize everyone reading this post if it seems harsh, I didn´t intend that. English is not my first language and I´m used to use it in business. Describe tones, emotions, etc. is still hard for me, so talk less learn a lot. Peace!

 

[acbarros]

What is the volume like on the Rocktron? At 150W stereo it doesn't seem like it would be enough for bigger gigs. Have you had any problems? I have read lots of complaints about Rocktron's build quality and reliability (I have not checked one out myself).

In bigger gigs I´m using for now the house´s PA systems and mine pair of RCF Art 310 as return. I think 150w is insufficient for bigger gigs. But for small gigs I do use my 1x12 cab loaded with the EVM 12L classic and the Rocktron in bridged mode (300W). I haven´t had any problems with it yet and I used it in several (>30) gigs since last october. I didn´t know about the complaints! I DO should read more before buying guitar stuff. I can barely control my G.A.S.

 

[acbarros]

I had one.....it was okay..... It is VERY heavy, and had electrical floor noise all the the time.

I agree, it´s VERY heavy! Because of this I bought the Matrix!
But I didn´t notice any eletrical floor noise until now.

 

[iggypop]

But I didn´t notice any eletrical floor noise until now.

Neither did I. And it sounded great!

As for the front controls altering feedback loops and stuff, that was probably meant to have the V300 behave more like a valve amp reacting to the speakers' changing impedance (regarding the [inductive] Reactance control). At least seems to be the idea Rocktron had to make it warmer sounding - and it worked... It seems like the Definition control is the "presence" control there.
And PRESENCE controls are exactly located in an output stage feedback loop, for instance. Don't we love them in our valve amps?
The GT800 isn't flat as well, right? As far as I remember, it's been said that it was tweaked from the XT800 to make it guitar-friendlier...