Am I the Only One Not Using High or Low Cuts Anymore?

[bjjp2]

I rarely use any cuts with firmware 10.

The other thing I noticed is that I'm gravitating to the "industry standard" of a mix of 121 and 57. I never used the 121 IRs prior to FW 10. Found them too boomy but now I like them mixed with a nice crunchy 57 IR.

Which ones are you using?

 

[JD_]

My workhorse presets for classic rock are a blend of 57's and 160's in the cab block. I usually low cut between 80 and 100, and high cut around 9000. When I removed the cuts to try it out, it was a bit like taking a blanket off the high end. I now hear string separation and clarity that I wasn't getting before. With the improvements in this firmware, I'm going to completely rework my amp/cab blocks.

When we're saying 'no cuts', does that mean leaving the high cut in the preamp page of the cab block at the default of 10k, or bumping it up to 20k to remove it completely? I did the latter.

 

[tysonlt]

Just chiming in here, pardon the pun... I'm still learning about such cuts, and have been using hi cut to deal with ice-picky highs. Would a PEQ be better to cut the nasty freqs but leave the upper complexity intact? How are others dealing with excessive brightness - just using BMT controls?

 

[jon]

Just chiming in here, pardon the pun... I'm still learning about such cuts, and have been using hi cut to deal with ice-picky highs. Would a PEQ be better to cut the nasty freqs but leave the upper complexity intact? How are others dealing with excessive brightness - just using BMT controls?

Sounds like a job for the presence control. Or the treble, or bright switch. Or try adjusting the value of the bright cap. What amp model are you using? A Marshall?

 

[Anthony76]

There’s a lot of information beyond 6-7k. Even on a V30 where the frequency response is 70 Hz-7k, this plot from the Celestion website shows what’s going on north of 7k.

View attachment 59738
Have you tried taking the high cut off and adjusted treble and presence to taste to get the top end response you’re looking for? Or is it that you’re just not a fan of the higher frequencies in your tone? I’m not looking to stir the pot. Just curious as to why some people like to cut top end that aggressively.

Hi Justin, all good, it is an interesting discussion.

I guess I do those cuts more out of habit than anything else. Essentially I hate low end build up or bass heavy guitar tones, so pretty much default to a 110-120 low cut. You're pretty much bang on as to why I do the high cut at 7khz, my ears find the higher frequencies annoying. But, all these discussions have piqued my curiosity, so I am going to take it up to 20khz and have a play around with the amp settings and try it at some gigs.

Cheers
Anthony

 

[curious]

I may not be understanding the issue very well. The quality of the amp and cab sims has certainly improved greatly. But how does that eliminate the need to make the guitar tone fit in the mix? In other words, no matter how great the tone is, don’t you still need to EQ the tone so it is not clashing with other high and low frequency sounds coming from the soundstage?

 

[reclavea]

I may not be understanding the issue very well. The quality of the amp and cab sims has certainly improved greatly. But how does that eliminate the need to make the guitar tone fit in the mix? In other words, no matter how great the tone is, don’t you still need to EQ the tone so it is not clashing with other high and low frequency sounds coming from the soundstage?

Here's York Audio's response to jon regarding not over powering vocals. Same technique for overall mix as well to me:

post #97

York Audio:
@jon….

If your guitar is fighting the vocal, try cutting a little 2k. That’s a common range for a vocal to sit. That way, you’ll still have great stereo imaging with your guitars, and they’ll get out of the way of the vocal. Also, if you like the 2k range in your guitar, you can always use side chain compression or dynamic EQ to clean up that area when the vocal kicks in.

 

[tysonlt]

I

Sounds like a job for the presence control. Or the treble, or bright switch. Or try adjusting the value of the bright cap. What amp model are you using? A Marshall?

I’m actually trying the fractal amps at the moment. I just did a small afternoon gig using my mate’s FOH behind us, and it was not too bright. Next gig is bigger and I’ll need proper fb, so I might hook up both and A/B them. Thanks

 

[curious]

Here's York Audio's response to jon regarding not over powering power vocals. Same technique for over mix as well to me:

post #97

York Audio:
@jon….

If your guitar is fighting the vocal, try cutting a little 2k. That’s a common range for a vocal to sit. That way, you’ll still have great stereo imaging with your guitars, and they’ll get out of the way of the vocal. Also, if you like the 2k range in your guitar, you can always use side chain compression or dynamic EQ to clean up that area when the vocal kicks in.

In my band the real issue we have another guitar player and keys. Things can get muddled depending on the room.

 

[ZenRigs Man]

I don't use either any more, as I think the amps (and cabs) just sound fuller and more fun to play without. As for gigging, the FOH guy adjusts lows and highs as he feels appropriate for the venue and the band mix on the night. I don't even pretend to be an expert at that and leave it to him! On occasion, I've cut slightly in the output EQ for the output I send to FOH if necessary but that's about it.

 

[jon]

In my band the real issue we have another guitar player and keys. Things can get muddled depending on the room.

Generally the more instruments in the band is the more each has to be cut and eq'd to fit in the overall mix. So usually lots of cuts, scoops, and corrective eq.
What sounds fantastic by itself in isolation will muddy up the mix with the whole band.

My advice is to see where your guitar 'shines' in the mix, and start cutting out everything else. Set a looper and have the band play along so you'll have a better chance of making the right adjustments. Have your other guitar player do the same, and same for the keyboardist and bassist.

I remember having that Same problem many years ago and we set aside a couple sessions JUST to work on our tones and the overall sound together. It worked, and we got lots of compliments how we sounded so much 'tighter'. I know it seems wasteful dedicating time just to make the band mix sound good, but you'll reap the benefits in the long run.

Also stay away from changing patches every song - instead of 40 patches just strip it down to 5 or so. YMMV, but I've found that to be the better approach

 

[curious]

Generally the more instruments in the band is the more each has to be cut and eq'd to fit in the overall mix. So usually lots of cuts, scoops, and corrective eq.
What sounds fantastic by itself in isolation will muddy up the mix with the whole band.

My advice is to see where your guitar 'shines' in the mix, and start cutting out everything else. Set a looper and have the band play along so you'll have a better chance of making the right adjustments. Have your other guitar player do the same, and same for the keyboardist and bassist.

I remember having that Same problem many years ago and we set aside a couple sessions JUST to work on our tones and the overall sound together. It worked, and we got lots of compliments how we sounded so much 'tighter'. I know it seems wasteful dedicating time just to make the band mix sound good, but you'll reap the benefits in the long run.

Also stay away from changing patches every song - instead of 40 patches just strip it down to 5 or so. YMMV, but I've found that to be the better approach

Thanks @jon Using Hi cut at about 6500-7600, low cut of about 80-100 and bumping mids with a PEQ has been effective to cut but can’t say it’s perfectly dialed in yet. I use about 10 presets for a typical gig and all have been tweaked at various times for room conditions. We also play outside a fair amount so there’s less issue. I suspect I will always have to tweak some. The main thing is my tone has never been better as the Ax III with 10.02 is just killer. My band mates are pretty impressed with the tones and kind of jealous that I don’t need to schlep a 4x12 cab, amp head and pedal board around anymore.

 

[ZenRigs Man]

Also stay away from changing patches every song - instead of 40 patches just strip it down to 5 or so. YMMV, but I've found that to be the better approach

100% with you on this. Too easy getting caught up in trying to tweak tone and effects to perfection for every song, but the audience rarely cares or notices, it ends up being a distraction to you and you risk sounding inconsistent. Simplicity is a win for me too!

 

[curious]

Totally agree on this but it raises the question: who are we tweaking tone for, the audience or ourselves?? I have to admit, I tweak generally until it sounds good to me on stage. I let sound crew tweak for the audience.

 

[jon]

I tweak to what sounds good to my ears, then refine that with a full mix, it won't be DRASTICALLY different, but it will likely NOT sound as awesome on it's own.

My overall philosophy is that the less the soundman has to touch my sound is the better for both me and the band - the audience will then hear the same I hear, and the band sounds good. The soundman gets to focus on other things and make the vocals sound great, and all is well with the world.

I prefer to have a sound that works in context, so there is more consistency from gig to gig, and the soundman just has to adjust levels. May sound not as great as on it's own, but that's what presets are for - I can have a preset that sounds great on it's own too for me to jam, the soundman can get the 'band context' version of that preset and it's a win-win all round.

 

[ZenRigs Man]

Totally agree on this but it raises the question: who are we tweaking tone for, the audience or ourselves?? I have to admit, I tweak generally until it sounds good to me on stage. I let sound crew tweak for the audience.

Same. I want it to sound and feel great for me, as that helps me play my best (and I need all the help I can get!). I leave FOH to someone independent and unbiased (i.e. not me!) to ensure things sound right for the audience. Having the axe fx makes that job easier for us both.

 

[TheOtherDave]

As much as i like full guitar tone , pretty much every soundguy lowcuts it before doing anything else. I usually have to ask to go easy on a low cut since i already have some lowcut dialed in.

Be sure to let them know if you've already applied a high-pass filter, and if so what frequency it's set to. I usually start soundcheck with a 40Hz-80Hz HPF (depends on tuning and how boomy the stage is), but if you've already done a bunch of EQing I'll cheerfully give your settings a try.

 

[TheOtherDave]

Quick question.... if I Cut Lows and Highs in the Output 1-2 Global EQ why do I still have to make Cuts in the Cab Block ? I’ve noticed at our shows, at large venues, with crazy subs I have to cut them in both places .....

Subs are usually driven off an aux buss, so your guitar normally won't get sent to them at all unless the engineer wants to do that. Assuming the "large venues" are large enough to own a good PA and to have it set up correctly, to me the question should be "Why do I need to add lows back in at the smaller venues?" rather than "Why do I need to cut lows out at the larger venues?"... IMHO, of course.

 

[TheOtherDave]

Sounds like a job for the presence control. Or the treble, or bright switch. Or try adjusting the value of the bright cap. What amp model are you using? A Marshall?

Backing off the tone knob just a bit on your guitar can also be helpful. The volume knob, too, if your guitar doesn't have a treble-bleed capacitor. It all kinda depends on where the frequencies in the amp's eq section are centered, where the presence knob starts affecting things, etc.

My overall philosophy is that the less the soundman has to touch my sound is the better for both me and the band - the audience will then hear the same I hear, and the band sounds good. The soundman gets to focus on other things and make the vocals sound great, and all is well with the world.

I prefer to have a sound that works in context, so there is more consistency from gig to gig, and the soundman just has to adjust levels. May sound not as great as on it's own, but that's what presets are for - I can have a preset that sounds great on it's own too for me to jam, the soundman can get the 'band context' version of that preset and it's a win-win all round.

This sound guy agrees with your philosophy

 

[tysonlt]

Backing off the tone knob just a bit on your guitar can also be helpful.

I have done this once or twice as a last resort, it occurred to me yesterday that perhaps that’s what it’s there for!!