Am I the Only One Not Using High or Low Cuts Anymore?

jon said:
Yes, makes a difference, depends on what you are going for, the preamp cut will give you a nice cut of the muddiness and flubby sound before it gets virtually amplified, the cab will cut AFTER it's amplified, which reduces much of the 'boom' and feedback inducing frequencies, and giving you a much better space in the mix, as you are not fighting with your bass kick and bassist.

Some amps benefit from cuts in both, but with the latest FW there is little need for it.

I'd recommend trying a preamp cut with say a fender or Mesa styled amp and see wha it does, and a cab cut to your personal taste.
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Even though those are excellent suggestions, I think that's not what he was asking.
Looking at the post he quoted I assume he was talking about the preamp tab in the cab block, not the amp's preamp.
 
I never use the cuts when I’m just playing for enjoyment. I go straight to the cab preamp page and turn the high cut up to 20k for the most realism the IR has to offer. If there’s too much low end, just turn down the bass. Too much high end... adjust treble and presence until it feels right.

When I’m recording, I set the low cut to at least 80 to avoid low end buildup in the mix, and then may adjust in my DAW once everything has been tracked.

To calibrate your ears, I think it’s always good practice to mic up a tube amp (if you still have one) with a 57 and hear how much sizzle and air the real thing gives you. Then compare that to your IR’s and find one that gives you a similar effect.
 
unix-guy said:
Your post seems to contradict the one from @yek as well as what I remember. The hi/low cuts in the Preamp section of the Cab block work whether or not the Preamp is active.
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It doesn't contradict that at all, I think you misinterpreted my post, I didn't say they don't work if the preamp is off.

I just said it makes a difference using those or the ones in the individual IR slots if the preamp is active.

If you don't use the preamp the chain inside the cab block is like this:

individual hi/low cuts -> master hi/lo cuts

If you use the preamp it's like this:

individual hi/low cuts -> preamp -> master hi/lo cuts
 
DLC86 said:
It doesn't contradict that at all, I think you misinterpreted my post, I didn't say they don't work if the preamp is off.

I just said it makes a difference using those or the ones in the individual IR slots if the preamp is active.

If you don't use the preamp the chain inside the cab block is like this:

individual hi/low cuts -> master hi/lo cuts

If you use the preamp it's like this:

individual hi/low cuts -> preamp -> master hi/lo cuts
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Yep... I did misunderstand :) Thanks for clarification!

But do you have reference that shows the signal flow with or without the Preamp? I've never seen anything that indicates that. I think that's good info to have.
 
unix-guy said:
Yep... I did misunderstand :) Thanks for clarification!

But do you have reference that shows the signal flow with or without the Preamp? I've never seen anything that indicates that. I think that's good info to have.
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It just comes from deduction.
Push the preamp hard to create a lot of distortion and you'll hear the difference between the two 😉
 
FractalAudio said:
I rarely use any cuts with firmware 10.

The other thing I noticed is that I'm gravitating to the "industry standard" of a mix of 121 and 57. I never used the 121 IRs prior to FW 10. Found them too boomy but now I like them mixed with a nice crunchy 57 IR.
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Agreed 100%. Almost every preset I've made recently is 57/121 with no cuts. It's the magic formula.
 
Jarick said:
Which cabs are you guys using with the 57/121 combo?
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I like the YA Recto ST cabs with a 57, 121 and sometimes also a 421. There are bright and dark versions, and a few different flavours of these IRs in the box so worth experimenting with them.

I happened across a nice mix between three of the YA cabs and the Petrucci Mix IR which I shared in a C++ preset recently.

@yorkaudio really knows how to shoot an IR. His all sound phenomenal and being available in the box as standard is brilliant!
 
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Anthony76 said:
Still cutting about 110hz and 6k or 7k or somewhere around there.
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There’s a lot of information beyond 6-7k. Even on a V30 where the frequency response is 70 Hz-7k, this plot from the Celestion website shows what’s going on north of 7k.

1572800190999.gif
Have you tried taking the high cut off and adjusted treble and presence to taste to get the top end response you’re looking for? Or is it that you’re just not a fan of the higher frequencies in your tone? I’m not looking to stir the pot. Just curious as to why some people like to cut top end that aggressively.
 
York Audio said:
There’s a lot of information beyond 6-7k. Even on a V30 where the frequency response is 70 Hz-7k, this plot from the Celestion website shows what’s going on north of 7k.

View attachment 59738
Have you tried taking the high cut off and adjusted treble and presence to taste to get the top end response you’re looking for? Or is it that you’re just not a fan of the higher frequencies in your tone? I’m not looking to stir the pot. Just curious as to why some people like to cut top end that aggressively.
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I wonder if it's about how the mic and it's placement affect the frequency response?

I've attached the RTA to the Cab block with the ML IRs that I'm currently using (with no cuts in the block) and find almost nothing beyond 7k.
 
I don't usually cut top end, but I cut low end generously.

I too don't like the 7k or so cuts, but if it fights with vocals or is causing issues I'll start with about 12k and trim down. 7k IMHO is way too low, I agree with the 'adjust treble and presence' approach first.
 
unix-guy said:
I wonder if it's about how the mic and it's placement affect the frequency response?

I've attached the RTA to the Cab block with the ML IRs that I'm currently using (with no cuts in the block) and find almost nothing beyond 7k.
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You’d have to ask him about how he processes his IR’s. All I know is that I’ve shot literally thousands of IR’s, and always compare my stuff to the real thing. In every case, both real and digital, there’s always a healthy amount of information past 7k. Cutting at 7k sounds like there’s a sock over the mic, and you lose note definition in complex chords as well as losing a critical sonic chunk that lets a guitar breathe in the mix.

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I’d highly recommend mic’ing up a cab with a 57 and recording it either with a tube amp or the Axe with a power amp, and you’ll hear everything past 7k. You can even hear it in the room without recording it.

I’m finishing up a cab now and was really surprised by how much sizzle it had in the room. Lots of audible stuff in the 12-16k range.
 
jon said:
I don't usually cut top end, but I cut low end generously.

I too don't like the 7k or so cuts, but if it fights with vocals or is causing issues I'll start with about 12k and trim down. 7k IMHO is way too low, I agree with the 'adjust treble and presence' approach first.
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If your guitar is fighting the vocal, try cutting a little 2k. That’s a common range for a vocal to sit. That way, you’ll still have great stereo imaging with your guitars, and they’ll get out of the way of the vocal. Also, if you like the 2k range in your guitar, you can always use side chain compression or dynamic EQ to clean up that area when the vocal kicks in.
 
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Great advice!!! and yeah I agree with the 2k trick, but I was more was more referring to stuff like 'airy' vocals....cymbals and strings too also come to mind with dealing with 8k-20k, and just like you said, some of that 'definition' in a guitar is lost.....the sock over the mic is a great analogy.

It also helps with ear fatigue to cut some high end but cutting too early or too much sounds.....not so good to my ear. I'm guessing not only the IR but the amp also has a lot to do with it, a shimmery vox with v30s may have a lot more stuff going on in the upper registers than say a Carol Ann with a 'swamp thang' speaker.
 
giantslayer said:
I never used high cuts. If it sounded too shrill or treble-y, I just changed the settings or went to a different amp model. I haven't re-evaluated my low cut setting since FW 10... I usually turn down the low speaker resonance and realized I needed to start putting some of it back after FW 10.
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I took the time to re-evaluate. Turns out I had the low cut on the cabinet set at 40hz with a 6db slope, which was already rather mild but turning it off made a shocking amount of difference. Definitely sounded better without it.

As for the low speaker resonance... I have those around 0.67 to 3 depending on the amp. The default value of 5 or so still feels like too much for me. I think it is authentic, but it's also why sound people usually have to cut the lows so much on real amps. Pulling the speaker resonance down tames the characteristic I would be trying to fix as a sound man and feels more polished than an EQ cut.

Tried it out live and it sounded good in the room. The place I play has the mains and sub crossed over at 120hz and the guitars aren't going into the sub, so that's kind of like a low cut. Low end still sounded pretty full and beefy.
 
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