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About to buy...audio gap question?

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ethomas1013

Forum Addict
Nice of you to be respectful of other people's opinions. It doesn't bother you personally so I guess it's just an "overblown" thing that people complain about just to complain about. :rolleyes:
Well, I did start my post with "IMO" which means "In My Opinion". I ended with "YMMV" which means "Your Mileage May Vary", meaning that you may not agree with me.

I stand by my statement. IMO, people make it a bigger issue than it is. I'm not discounting that it may be a problem for others. It's overblown from the perspective that this has been beat to death on this forum. FAS has explained why it is the way it is many times. Perhaps another product that does not have an audible gap would better meet the needs of those who can't work around the gap.
 
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Sonofiam

Forum Addict
A similar thing happened with the FX8 and the CPU issue. It was discussed to the point where it seemed to be a major issue and I almost didn't purchase the FX8 because of it. I'm glad I didn't let these discussions sway my decision, It's been the single best effects purchase I've made. I've used the FX8 exclusively for over a year and a half and have not had one CPU issue. It's also been quite a while since I've seen any comments made about it so either users have learned to deal with it or moved on to something else.

I will be the first to agree that there will always be shortcomings of any device. There will also be those who will complain about them to the point that they appear to be major flaws. I'm not discounting the frustration that these users have but in this case, as with the CPU issue, it appears that a majority of users do not experience the same problem.

Compromises are always made when it comes to digital gear. If the AX8 isn't performing the way that's needed, there are plenty of other options available that will. It will all depend upon the compromises you're willing to make or accept. For what the AX8 (and FX8) has to offer, the quality of effects and tone far outweigh it's 'shortcomings'. To be perfectly blunt, if you can't find up to a second (worst case scenario from what I've read) when you're playing there are other issues that don't have anything to do with the gear being used.

Bottom line, don't let something like this keep you from buying the AX8 and at least finding out for yourself. Everybody's needs and expectations are different. At the end of the day, you're the only one who can ultimately decide if it's something that you can work with or not. I and many others have found it to be a non-issue and are completely happy with the AX8.
 

ejecta

Regular
Nice of you to be respectful of other people's opinions. It doesn't bother you personally so I guess it's just an "overblown" thing that people complain about just to complain about. :rolleyes:
It being overblown is his opinion and I didn't see him stating that as some universal truth.. Just sayin...
 

Dutch

Fractal Fanatic
I don't understand why every time the topic of the gap comes up someone makes this claim. If you have a tube amp that is not vastly faster and less noticeable on switching channels than the AX8 is on switching amp models then your amp is broken. Simple as that. If the gap on the AX8 isn't an issue for you and the music you perform, that's great. I just don't get why we have to pretend it doesn't exist.
Did you listen to the video? It's minute! Tiny! If he switched a bit sooner and while he was changing positions you wouldn't have heard it. Just now it's loud and in your face and it bothers. Even me, I must admit. It's a warts-and-all video. I probably couldn't have done it better, BTW.
My MESA most definitely took longer and popped. Loudly. Granted it was an original Dual Recto from the first half of the 90s, but it was a MESA. Not to mention I had other things hanging in between that needed to switch also and back then all of them took some time.

And I never said anywhere that the gap didn't exist. Actually I went to great length to explain it. And I mentioned that there are some people that can't get past it. Who cares that I think you shouldn't be switching tones while you're holding a chord? Or a note. Even musically I think that's weird. But if you want that, go right along. My taste isn't your taste and who the crap cares about my taste, anyway. You're welcome not to.

And I tried to convey how I deal with it. That doesn't mean it's not there or that those people are wrong. It explains the trade-off one has to make.
 
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Geezerjohn

Fractal Fanatic
When the first cell phones came out, they were the size of a car battery with a curly cord and a handset the size of a legbone. Thankfully, manufacturers persevered and we now have cellphones that are a bit more manageable (although they seem to be heading back to the battery size). I don't see anyone saying the audio gap problem does not exist, I just see people (like me) saying it is not that bad and I work with it. For me, the positive attributes of the AX8 greatly outweigh any negatives.
 

Bones43x

New here
If you have a tube amp that is not vastly faster and less noticeable on switching channels than the AX8 is on switching amp models then your amp is broken. Simple as that. If the gap on the AX8 isn't an issue for you and the music you perform, that's great. I just don't get why we have to pretend it doesn't exist.
It really isn't that simple. You may not have an amp that pops or has a noticeable delay when switching channels, but many, if not most amps do in fact have a pop or gap even when nothing is broken or faulty.

Not to mention true bypass pop or switching pickups...these are just things you have to time right. In that video someone posted earlier, the preset change was timed in a way to be more noticeable than a real life situation. I can't think of a situation where I'm switching channels or patches while holding a note or chord. Usually I can find a rest where I can switch before a solo or main lead so I don't foresee the gap being a problem.

Anyway, the AX8 is scheduled for delivery on Monday. I can't wait.
 

cobbler

Fractal Fanatic
If the gap on the AX8 isn't an issue for you and the music you perform, that's great. I just don't get why we have to pretend it doesn't exist.
I just read the thread and have no clue what you are talking about here. All I see is some who say it's not an issue the way they use the AX8, others who offer up multiple ways to minimize the gap, and some who feel it's a bigger issue for them but not a deal breaker.

Not one post claims or pretends it doesn't exist.
 
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barhrecords

Axe-Master
This issue comes up fairly often. Yes it would be awesome if there was no gap. I would guess if it were possible, it would have been done already.

There are many different approaches to eliminating or minimizing audio drop out.

If the audio drop out is really the most primary concern, I would consider getting two units. Having two guarantees you have a backup and guarantees no drop outs.

For what I do it's major overkill. For fills and licks I use a drive pedal on / off; no gaps. Then do a preset switch for solos. I'm used to "getting ready" for a solo a beat or two ahead. Been playing that way since the 70's with my conventional rig.

Coming out of a solo I back down the gtr volume control. No gaps. Then preset switch sometime later when it won't be noticed.

It's all part of putting on a show and making it look easy :)
 

philipacamaniac

Fractal Fanatic
The AX8 Amp XY switching is measurably faster than a Mesa Maverick (precursor to the Lone Star). The Maverick had a noticeable fade in and out between the rhythm and lead channels. I've heard faster switching amps but many had pops (which I assume the Maverick, and the AX8, were designed to avoid).

On topic regarding P&W music, I've never in my 20 years of playing P&W felt the need to play two amps during a set, let alone two amps during a song. Two channels, sure, but that was before I discovered Class A sounds (I now use a DC30 for everything). Most cats these days are using a Vox or a Fender (or some derivative of one of those), as a platform for their "boutique" pedals. The AX8 can perform this task handily.
 

SoProg

Inspired
The AX8 Amp XY switching is measurably faster than a Mesa Maverick (precursor to the Lone Star). The Maverick had a noticeable fade in and out between the rhythm and lead channels. I've heard faster switching amps but many had pops (which I assume the Maverick, and the AX8, were designed to avoid).
Almost every amp I've ever had switches channels faster than the AX8 without issue.
The exception though is another Mesa.
The Roadster has a gap unless the reverb circuit is switched in. But it works even if the reverb is on but 0%mix.



But, as I know people have mentioned to you many times through all these audio gap threads:
Just because some other products also have this problem, doesn't in any way mean that it isn't a problem, nor does that add anything to the discussion.
 

st3sch

New here
These audio gap threads grow quickly ;) There is one thing that bothers me the most with the little switching delay. It is the fade in I hear. Maybe it si just me, but the (for me) hearable fade in with a high gain sound is where the gap gets my attention. If it "bam" would be there without the fade it would be less noticable for me. And I think this is what happens with other gear (tube amps) it is just there with wrong timing.

By the way training myself to a little "lookahead" switching point and disabling X/Y for the footswitches is an easy starting point in a multible preset setup.
 

ejecta

Regular
Seriously?
Agree. Not sure why some have to say all amps have gaps when switching unless it's to defend their digital gear of choice. I've owned more amps than I can count and some had gaps and some didn't. Off the top of my head a few that didn't were Friedman BE, Bogner XTC classic and Goldfinger, heck even the 5153 50 watter didn't gap or pop.

Like I said the AX8 works just fine for me with what little gap I have to put up with.
 

artzeal

Inspired
Maybe it comes down to the challenge of playing styles of music that have to be in your face all the time without any space or breath. Way back in the 80s when music videos became the thing, the videography would make a drama of the foot coming down on the distortion pedal before the solo or chorus: like visual voice leading. When we played that sort of thing: You can mute the strings and switch on the 4-and: then bam - come in on the One - on time and in tune. My foot has more latency than the AX8, and since I lay off for rests (heck, I even take entire bars off) I gave no thought to this gap until folks started wringing their hands about it.

At the level of popular culture we participate in to whatever degree: I consider there may be a subconscious expectation of reproducing multi-tracked, cross-faded, produced music in real time on one device: after all, A DJ routinely mixes together multiple sources, and gaming has neurologically conditioned the brain to be frustrated if there isn't an immediate response to every action. There is also the constant sub current of advertising: Constantly shifting the soundscape - desperately trying to keep attention from shifting elsewhere. And the subversive egoic reflex of trying to find a fault to condemn something with: which is so prevalent in the engines of tabloids and politics. A lot to sort through.

For someone that doesn't have access to an AX8, it's sensible to inquire whether it is going to work for them, and there will be a range of responses depending on users' experience. This is one more. I make liberal(and conservative) use of scenes and X/Y and have felt liberated by the switching capabilities, rather than troubled by them.
 
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gdgross

Veteran
The gap is real. FWIW in my usage I only hear it when I'm switching my amp between x and y states. Typically most patches I have the Y state with a little higher gain than the x state.

I know it exists and try to time me axy changes to quick rests so it's inaudible in context. Doesn't always work out that way, but even without axy, this rig is still more versatile than a single channel amp.
 

Sonofiam

Forum Addict
Guys is the latency really that bad even with scenes? Is the FX8 that slow too?
It all depends on who you ask. Some say it's a deal breaker, some say it's noticeable but they can live with it, and others like myself say it's a complete non-issue. Is there actually a 'gap'? In some instances, yes. But it's definitely quicker than anything I experienced using an amp with a conventional pedal board. This 'gap' issue is similar to the CPU issue, so much is being made about it that it's becoming a major concern to those looking to try one.

IMO, I believe it boils down to being realistic with expectations. To expect a device to switch to a different amp or settings and make effect changes without any type of interruption of the signal, all while delivering uncompromised amp tones and effect quality is completely unrealistic. If someone can accomplish all of the changes they need by tap-dancing on individual pedals and amp footswitches or moving knobs on their amps quicker than the AX8, or FX8, then by all means stick with 'real' amps and pedals.
 
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