About that 0.06mS Delay

[laughyouraxeoff]

Great Post GM!!!!

 

[Stratoblaster]

This effect is strongest in mono.

Now when you have 2 different cabs, things get interesting.

While I felt the delay added some 'life' to a single IR in two cabs summed to mono, I've been getting amazing results with the 121 and M160 IR pairs in the same configuration.

 

[mnemonic]

Tried this out last night, very cool! Works great for amps with a high end that needs taming, and amps that sound a bit thin.

 

[guitar32]

This was a great post by the OP, never tried this before but it works great. Thanks for informing us all how it works!

 

[BMH]

Wow ... I actually understand the concept now. Haven't tried it yet, but will now.

 

[tone pilgrim]

Would someone be so kind as to post a preset or a screen shot of this signal chain? I want to be sure I'm getting it right. Thanks in advance.

 

[Dimebucker]

+1

Screen shots would be very nice!

Would someone be so kind as to post a preset or a screen shot of this signal chain? I want to be sure I'm getting it right. Thanks in advance.

 

[mnemonic]

+1

Screen shots would be very nice!

Based on what GM Arts said, this is how I set it up. Circled are the only settings I changed. I found I preferred 0.04ms delay over 0.06ms.

 

[clarky]

Based on what GM Arts said, this is how I set it up. Circled are the only settings I changed. I found I preferred 0.04ms delay over 0.06ms.

I'm not so sure that achieves the effect being described in this thread..
you are delaying both cabs by the same amount..

I reckon you'd do better to ditch the flanger, go to cab2, set the delay parameter to 0.040 [based on your flanger setting - personally I quite liked 0.060]

 

[Maurice]

Please a screenshot of the Cab settings, if possible ? as i thought this was about delay "in" the Cab setting with 2 Cabs ? Hard panning left+right ?

As Cliff said: "Using 2 Ir's / blocks in stereo, using small amount of delay on one Cab block "

But anyway GM Arts, thanks for explaning, as it will be the same principle as described and obtained by your flanger-setting i think.

 

[GM Arts]

Yes, if you're using 2 cab blocks, you might as well just put a delay in one of them.

But for mono paths, the screenshot above is correct. The mix setting controls a blend between the undelayed and delayed signals. Set it at 50% for maximum effect or lower for less effect, as you've done, mnemonic. Likewise, start with 0.06mS delay, and lower it to move the treble cut to higher frequencies.

 

[Dimebucker]

GM Arts can you post screen shots for your overall signal chain ,I have never use two cabs would be very nice to see that signal chain also? And also like Maurice did say ,would be nice to see those Cab blocks settings too.

 

[strat714]

"Beast Rebels of the Hellscape" is a GREAT preset name!!!! Woot!

 

[dschaaf]

Based on what GM Arts said, this is how I set it up. Circled are the only settings I changed. I found I preferred 0.04ms delay over 0.06ms.

Thanks for the screenshot but a patch would be fantastic if you had the time!

 

[clarky]

But for mono paths, the screenshot above is correct. The mix setting controls a blend between the undelayed and delayed signals. Set it at 50% for maximum effect or lower for less effect, as you've done, mnemonic. Likewise, start with 0.06mS delay, and lower it to move the treble cut to higher frequencies.

hmmm… I thought the point of this even in mono was to delay one cab and not the other..
for example:
cab1: Mesa 4x12 with SM57 no delay
cab2: the same Mesa 4x12 with R121 with delay

so it's effectively like using two different mic's [or maybe even the same mic type] on the same cab at different distances..

 

[GM Arts]

This thread seems to be heading down a path of confusion, similar to Cliff's original thread. So ...

Cliff's thread http://forum.fractalaudio.com/cliffs-notes/91932-my-secret-realistic-cab-sounds.html recommends using two cabs in parallel, one with no delay, and the other with a short delay. You may wish to experiment with panning these signals if you have a stereo rig.

My thread aims to explain what effect this has (pretty much a blocking filter for high frequencies) and why. It can be demonstrated most easily using a flanger block in a mono signal path. So yes, this also means you can get a similar effect on mono signal chains with a single cab block, and you can lessen the effect if it's too much with the changes I've described.

I hope that clears things up. I'll try to find some time to post some frequency response charts soon.

 

[Rex]

hmmm… I thought the point of this even in mono was to delay one cab and not the other..

You're right: that's exactly the point. And that's what the flanger is doing here.

Flanging happens when you mix a delayed signal with the dry signal, while continuously varying the delay. The flanger's DELAY TIME parameter sets the base delay time of the flanger's built-in delay circuit. By setting DEPTH to zero, you're no longer sweeping the delay, and it stays fixed at whatever DELAY TIME is set to.

Now you've got a dry signal mixed with a delay signal, which is exactly what we're going for. The benefit is that you only need one cab block. I'm not sure why mnemonic is using two cab blocks here, unless he just likes the sound of both blocks blended. Both cabs are getting mixed together, and the entire signal is getting a delayed version and a straight-through version, not just one cab vs. the other.

 

[clarky]

ah I see..
so really I'm just helping to lead this thread down the path of confusion then..
I can confuse it a little more if you guys want.. lol..

 

[GM Arts]

Ok, I've attached some pics of the frequency response to show the effect of varying delay time.

 

[FractalAudio]

My suggestion was not to use a Flanger but use the delay in the Cab block. A Flanger doesn't accomplish the same thing, it's just a comb filter. The idea is to use two different IRs in the cab block (thereby simulating two mics) and delay one slightly vs the other. This effect is different because the phase between the two IRs is different.