A Common Axe-FX complaint:

If a tube amp has 2 balls, the Axe has 10+. :lol I have never in my 20 years of playing was able to get as good a sound from any amp as I get from the Axe.
 
Radley said:
A common Axe-FX complaint: Although the sounds are very hi fidelity, they tend to be rather thin, lacking 'real amp' balls (this comes from my fellow guitarist in the Neil Diamond band). Do you believe this is accurate, or possibly an example of not knowing the unit well enough?
Click to expand...

I've heard this from some people on a few of my patches...I've sort of designed them that way to avoid boomyness and a few other factors (like even volume distribution (sounds the same at lower volumes as high)...as much as you can do that.) But as soon as I kick in the Recto with a V30, they say 'nope, it's there' once they retrieve their face from the other side of the room.

It's an EQ thing is my guess.
 
Thanks to all for your input. I tend to think it could be a combination of certain IRs and the amazing amount of EQ available (anything worth doing is worth overdoing?):eek: Usually what makes things phat for my OD patches is adding (short) ambiance using the reverb tip I posted a while back (I believe it's still in the AX Wiki?), or some other time related effect - I prefer this method to EQ only. I also find myself putting the Transformer HF parameter to good use - something about the way Cliff implemented this sounds much more natural/musical than a simple low pass filter, and I find it to be excellent for fattening or mellowing a patch that sounds too spikey or thin (without having to add overbearing low end).

Example: Since I use my AFX Ultra almost exclusively direct to a mixing board or house system, I sometimes program patches using headphones (not ideal). I recently did this using a set of Sony phones that had become deficient in their HF response over the years, so when I tried the patches on a flat system, the high end was much too strong - it was a simple fix to start lowering the Transformer HF parameter until the frequency balance was smooth & fat.:eek: Don't be afraid to take the parameter all the way down into the 2k to 5k range if needed - I tend to prefer this over lowering the Presence level for fatness.
 
Radley said:
I also find myself putting the Transformer HF parameter to good use - something about the way Cliff implemented this sounds much more natural/musical than a simple low pass filter, and I find it to be excellent for fattening or mellowing a patch that sounds too spikey or thin (without having to add overbearing low end).
Click to expand...

Many of the 'tricks' I've found have been in the presets. Which I find much maligned. Even tho I have argued for some time that the CAB IR's are not what they should be, many of the presets compensate for this in various ways (EQ or odd AMP block setups that *shouldn't* work, but do spectacularly.)

I'm much more 'plug and play', but I've never had a problem with 'balls' or 'thin' when I've needed it. Headphone tweaking I have found NEVER works. Turn it up, tweak, off you go. Kind of the 'practice how you will play' kind of syndrome.

Ron
 
A common complaint???? By whom??? PodHD owners? I'm not being a fanboy...but the Axe Fx is awesome in every aspect and I will fight those that oppose or mention unjust words! JK...but not really.....I never hear people say it's thin.
 
Tremonti - I personally know three different AFX users who have made the same comment, and yes, two of these people also own POD HD500s as well as many other modelers.... Maybe you could view this thread as 'how to get the biggest sounds out of the AFX' and submit your own suggestions - I have offered some of mine....
 
My Ultra has more balls then my PowerBALL thru my poweramp and cab :D
I think it's a phisical question of volume (=punch) and speaker you use.
 
I'm a AXE FX Ultra into a VHT 2150 tube power amp then off to a 2 x 12 Scumback (J75 & M75) cab guy.
(Sometimes I use the effects return on some of the amps I mention below)

For me I can certainly thicken up the sound as you've all mentioned EASILY.

For me thick also means complex harmonic overtones which to my ears my Bogner 20th Anniversary Shiva and 20th Ecstasy, Elmwood M90, Marshall JVM, Marsha HBE, original 1968 Plexi and SLO100 still have the jump on the AXE no matter what I do.

The presence and overtones of my actual rigs still sound fuller/richer/thicker and more musical to my ears. (especially at band volume)

I'm NOT putting the AXE down at all and I like it very much and will use it.

I can't put my hand on my heart and say that it's 100% as good as my live rig at band volume.

The pick attack immediacy doesn't feel the same.

I certainly can't claim there's a latency from the AXE but again, my amps feel quicker and bite far harder. (low gan or high gain)

Of course I've turned off the power amp, cab sims,turned off the noise gate and adjusted bottom end frequencies for gain and volume. I've selected and tried all amp models and used Scott's PEQ trick. I even use an external OD stomp box into the front input to bring a bit of real world into the chain.

Yes, I run my verb and delay in parallel to keep the raw signal intact to the very end.

Again, I get great results but still not standing up to my actual live rig.

Not looking to be ridiculed as I believe I have an idea what I'm doing.

I just want to know if there's another trick or setting I'm not aware of to get me to where the Ultra is as good as a physical amp live.
Attack and Bite with intact harmonic overtones is where I want to take it.

Yes, I'm sure you guys claim bite and attack but unless you own and play through the amps I mentioned performing an A - B test you won't or can't appreciate where I'm coming from.

Any assistance is greatly appreciated.

In closing the Axe Ultra is outstanding and it's only the above that is the shortfall for me.
 
Man With Gas said:
I'm a AXE FX Ultra into a VHT 2150 tube power amp then off to a 2 x 12 Scumback (J75 & M75) cab guy.
(Sometimes I use the effects return on some of the amps I mention below)

For me I can certainly thicken up the sound as you've all mentioned EASILY.

For me thick also means complex harmonic overtones which to my ears my Bogner 20th Anniversary Shiva and 20th Ecstasy, Elmwood M90, Marshall JVM, Marsha HBE, original 1968 Plexi and SLO100 still have the jump on the AXE no matter what I do.

The presence and overtones of my actual rigs still sound fuller/richer/thicker and more musical to my ears. (especially at band volume)

I'm NOT putting the AXE down at all and I like it very much and will use it.

I can't put my hand on my heart and say that it's 100% as good as my live rig at band volume.

The pick attack immediacy doesn't feel the same.

I certainly can't claim there's a latency from the AXE but again, my amps feel quicker and bite far harder. (low gan or high gain)

Of course I've turned off the power amp, cab sims,turned off the noise gate and adjusted bottom end frequencies for gain and volume. I've selected and tried all amp models and used Scott's PEQ trick. I even use an external OD stomp box into the front input to bring a bit of real world into the chain.

Yes, I run my verb and delay in parallel to keep the raw signal intact to the very end.

Again, I get great results but still not standing up to my actual live rig.

Not looking to be ridiculed as I believe I have an idea what I'm doing.

I just want to know if there's another trick or setting I'm not aware of to get me to where the Ultra is as good as a physical amp live.
Attack and Bite with intact harmonic overtones is where I want to take it.

Yes, I'm sure you guys claim bite and attack but unless you own and play through the amps I mentioned performing an A - B test you won't or can't appreciate where I'm coming from.

Any assistance is greatly appreciated.

In closing the Axe Ultra is outstanding and it's only the above that is the shortfall for me.
Click to expand...

If you recall the infamous 'crack' thread, I think Cliff stated that he has deliberately set the initial attack/crack (transient? or something I think it was called) 'softer' than a tube amp to make it easier to play and that the parameter wasn't going to be exposed at this stage. I also miss it a bit and would love to see it exposed. I only really miss it for clean, muted funk style playing, where, with a tube amp, you can typically get muted single notes to 'pop' out almost as much as the chords. IMO...YMMMV etc...A large part of it is probably my lack of tweaking skills or the amplification I am using.
 
Radley said:
A common Axe-FX complaint: Although the sounds are very hi fidelity, they tend to be rather thin, lacking 'real amp' balls (this comes from my fellow guitarist in the Neil Diamond band). Do you believe this is accurate, or possibly an example of not knowing the unit well enough?
Click to expand...

Quite honestly, you have changed your opinion about the Ultra many times. 1st it was terrible, then it was great, back and forth-I have read your posts.etc, etc. Why would you title the threa d the way you did? This is assuming that this is true.
You be the judge,your the player. Let him play thru it and you listen
 
Radley said:
Tremonti - I personally know three different AFX users who have made the same comment, and yes, two of these people also own POD HD500s as well as many other modelers.... Maybe you could view this thread as 'how to get the biggest sounds out of the AFX' and submit your own suggestions - I have offered some of mine....
Click to expand...

I was quasi kidding....that being said I just don't think many share the same view of the Axe FX being "thin". 3 out of 1000's isn't a "common complaint". There are so many ways to tweak, many options for running the Axe FX, and everyone has different ears. Mine is as fat and full as any "tube" amp I've ever played. Most of us wouldn't have sold the amps we've had if the Axe FX was thin sounding. Good luck and hope you get some advice that makes your sound "thicker".
 
Dan the Axe Man said:
Oddly enough I find that the Axe is too bassy most of the time for me. I've never found it to be thin in any way.
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I agree it's got plenty of "low end" but... with the different setups I've tried in the past, it definitely needs some help in the mids department.
 
Using the Axe into a real cab or a FRFR system seems to show different issues.
I feel too that with the last firmwares it sounds thin...far into the cab, can't express it better.
If i plug another amp into the same cab at the same level it sounds more present.
My guess is that the global level is the same but the average is different, think to the distance between peaks and average signal in your recording.
When distance is small it sounds bigger than the same tone with high distance.(not sure about the clarity of my explanation)
Here in France we have organisations which complain about TV advertising and volume of their sound. The global level is the same but working with compressor in the average signal they make it sounds bigger. They complain about that.
My guess is that we got the same thing with the last firmwares but in the bad direction.
I remember that i've got the same feeling by plugging my plexy just after the Axe into the same cab with my first Axe firmwares, this is not the case today.
But perhaps i was wrong.
 
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mba said:
Using the Axe into a real cab or a FRFR system seems to show different issues.
I feel too that with the last firmwares it sounds thin...far into the cab, can't express it better.
If i plug another amp into the same cab at the same level it sounds more present.
My guess is that the global level is the same but the average is different, think to the distance between peaks and average signal in your recording.
When distance is small it sounds bigger than the same tone with high distance.(not sure about the clarity of my explanation)
Here in France we have organisations which complain about TV advertising and volume of their sound. The global level is the same but working with compressor in the average signal they make it sounds bigger. They complain about that.
My guess is that we got the same thing with the last firmwares but in the bad direction.
I remember that i've got the same feeling by plugging my plexy just after the Axe into the same cab with my first Axe firmwares, this is not the case today.
But perhaps i was wrong.
Click to expand...

You have the Master set too high.
 
Radley said:
A common Axe-FX complaint: Although the sounds are very hi fidelity, they tend to be rather thin, lacking 'real amp' balls (this comes from my fellow guitarist in the Neil Diamond band). Do you believe this is accurate, or possibly an example of not knowing the unit well enough?
Click to expand...
Jay Mitchell said:
........it's a function of equalization. In the Axe-Fx, you've got IR-based cab sims, which is functionally a set of powerful EQ functions. The tools are there to get any amp/cab cound you want. I'd say that whether you get "thick," "thin," "balls," or "neutered" is more a function of the carpenter than the hammer.
Click to expand...
Radley said:
Thanks to all for your input. I tend to think it could be a combination of certain IRs and the amazing amount of EQ available (anything worth doing is worth overdoing?):eek:
Click to expand...

Glad you're still out there Radley..... haven't seen a post from you in quite some time. I agree with your opening post..... high fidelity, seems thin......
I also agree with Jay - it takes a masterful manipulation of EQ
and there in lies a huge hurdle - which Radley mentioned later (overdoing the amount of EQ available). The Axe-FX's high fidelity tones appear to be very sensitive to a plethora of EQ variables that make it difficult to translate tonal consistency across venues/set ups. I'm am 90% an FRFR guy that goes straight to the board (monitored with IEM's when they're available). Being an engineer, my tolerance for deviation from expectations is very low. If I create a tone that I like (with my PA equipment at home), it never ceases to annoy me when I get to a venue - tie into the FOH - play a riff into the looper and then stand in the "audience" and sigh because of all the time I will now need to spend tweaking before the gig - just to get to the tone where I felt it should have been to begin with.

It's been a three year journey, I can't see myself going back to a traditional amp set up, but I'll be honest: It's been surprisingly "thin" a lot more often than it's been surprising on the upside.

I tip my hat to all the guys out there who've reached tonal nirvana with their Axe-FX's.
 
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