A Common Axe-FX complaint:

Radley

Radley

Experienced
A common Axe-FX complaint? Although the sounds are very hi fidelity, they tend to be rather thin, lacking 'real amp' balls (this comes from my fellow guitarist in the Neil Diamond band). Do you believe this is accurate, or possibly an example of not knowing the unit well enough?
 
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Could be any number of factors. I am not a high profile guy, nor do I play in high profile projects such as you do. But I find the tones I get and use are *anything* but 'thin' or 'lacking balls' at all.

If we are discussing FRFR; I put the actual final "x" factor on the IR. It's the most vital piece to the puzzle overall; I know that's not a popular thing to say and goes against the grain; but those User Slots can change a LOT of what you actually have. The freebie Red Wire G12M Cap Off Axis @ 3" is just a 100% slam-dunk for most anything in the Marshall realm. Put that in - no PEQ needed, no nothing needed other than a good even Marshall-type of tone and I will guarantee 'thin' or 'lacking balls' will simply not be in the lexicon of adjectives used for the tone.

IMHO, YMMV.
 
Radley said:
A common Axe-FX complaint: Although the sounds are very hi fidelity, they tend to be rather thin, lacking 'real amp' balls (this comes from my fellow guitarist in the Neil Diamond band).
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Well, is it really "common," or is it just coming from the one player? I've heard it once or twice, but I've heard at least as many complaints that the sound is "too dark," etc.

Do you believe this is accurate, or possibly an example of not knowing the unit well enough?
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You can make any modeler sound as "thick" or as "thin" as you like. That's not a function of the modeling process, it's a function of equalization. In the Axe-Fx, you've got IR-based cab sims, which is functionally a set of powerful EQ functions. The tools are there to get any amp/cab cound you want. I'd say that whether you get "thick," "thin," "balls," or "neutered" is more a function of the carpenter than the hammer.
 
Galo said:
Is not accurate...my patches sound so fat some people tell me to make it thinner.
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True..... when I play your patches Galo, I feel like an elephant in a glass house.
Real bandwidth hog that not only cuts trough the mix but flattens it like a pancake.

:mrgreen :twisted

OK seriously, you can beef up almost any patch to a monster level.
EQs, IR's and all the TAPE distortion tricks can take you there and way beyond if needed.

;)
 
What I notice with a lot of the gainy amp models is that it will sound fat when playing chords and notes in the lower register, moving up the neck for leads it can get ice-picky. And I have purchased and use several of the RedWirez IR's.
 
What cab(s) do you use onstage?

Is the other guy accustomed to hearing his cab 'pumping' along at a volume loud enough to do so?

Question for Jay.. If a 'pumping' cab has merit as a source of balls, what parameters would you go after to simulate this?
 
Recently i got a new solution for me for a fat, really heavy "HiFi-Tone".
I tried again the Redwirez and put e Stereo-Cab after the Amp(5150). One Side i loaded with a normal Peavey cabinet and a Neumann U87 and the other side i loaded with a -i dont know which brand- 4x12cabinet miced with the far-fielded TC30 with 2m distance (Not the back positioned one, its to dark for me). After that search the balance between the farfield and the nearfieldcabinets.
 
I'm having a really hard time finding a cabinet IR I really like. I like (one of) the stock 4x12 Vintage 30 cabs a lot, Redwirez leave me cold. Running Axe through a tube power amp and 2x12 with EVM12L's is pretty cool, too. Most cabinet models just sound weird to me.

It could be that this player just didn't spend enough time with the unit to find the combination he liked. Factory patches are drenched in effects for the most part, so if he just tried them and nothing else, of course he'd be disappointed. As with anything technically complicated, the problem often exists between the chair and the control panel. :)
 
Agree with most here that IRs are both the problem and the soluition. Without wanting to generalise, many nearfield IRs have as general response of significantly cut mids with both boosted and extended highs. Using those IRs with FRFR is definitely a recipe for thin tone lacking balls (which I presume to be mids).
 
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Radley said:
A common Axe-FX complaint: Although the sounds are very hi fidelity, they tend to be rather thin, lacking 'real amp' balls (this comes from my fellow guitarist in the Neil Diamond band). Do you believe this is accurate, or possibly an example of not knowing the unit well enough?
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Sounds like usual modeller prejudice, based on old school modellers or just repeating what others say..... or tube snobbery, if you ask me.

I don't believe the statements to be accurate and the amount of positive comments I get on my tone is FAR higher than when I was using tubes (and it is not my playing or axe-fx prowess!!)
 
To say the Axe sounds thin or lacks balls is like saying your car is too slow while refusing to put your foot on the gas. Or like saying your amp does not have enough gain without ever turning the gain up.

If he feels it's too thin, adjust the controls and make it thicker. It really is that simple.

I mean there are more adjustable settings on the Axe FX then any mere mortal could possibly require.

I think it is a case of someone needing to spend more time getting familiar with the Axe FX. Your buddy is probably just use to plugging in and playing.

When I run through my power amp and cab, I have to change the way I eq my patches that were setup for FRFR because they do sound thin.

However, by simply modifying the settings I can make it as thick as I want. I like to turn up the warm and thump settings in the amp sims. But also just eqing it to taste.

Too thin, not enough low end?.?. Well then, turn up the low end. There are about 20 different ways to do that on the axe fx, be it changing low pass filter settings, the graphic eq, parametric eq, amp controls etc...

This topic reminds me of why I always get a kick out of amp shootouts. So you get some guy who sets up two amps, plays them and seems to prove definitively one way or the the other which amp sounds better. You will have some guys come in and say, "yeah, amp A really lacks low end". Course if you look at the eq settings on the amp the guy may have the bass set next to nothing.
 
IMO, I think he just needs some help tweaking his sound. I thought that too at first and then I thought the stock cabs were farty....now I know how to dial it in for my guitar, my pickups and my FRFR solution. Try and get him to post here with some clips. There's a LOT of talent and knowledge on this board.

-Mike
 
Radley said:
A common Axe-FX complaint: Although the sounds are very hi fidelity, they tend to be rather thin, lacking 'real amp' balls (this comes from my fellow guitarist in the Neil Diamond band). Do you believe this is accurate, or possibly an example of not knowing the unit well enough?
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You own one, or did. You're the pro. What do you think? That's all that matters.

FWIW, I can get fatter sounds than I have any use for. Are you sure your pal is not confusing tone with cabinet thump and moving air?

JWW
 
...and the effects have not even been mentioned: delay, phaser, univibe, flanger, chorus (just a lil' of these can thicken the soup).

Also the Drives...the choice of cabs.
Even on clean sounds, use the Tape Dist. like Yek came up with.
 
yea i had a guy at a gig come up to me and tell me my guitar sounded bigger then he could believe, then he told me it's almost too big,... almost lol
 
I can make a patch too thin just as easily as I can make a patch too thick (with too much balls). I think these issues are usually a result of the user not the device. When I've made something that I like but it's too thin, I usually find the IR I'm using to be the culprit.

Another angle of it worth discussing: I make patches to sound good in a band context. I don't make patches that sound just like my favorite amp in my bedroom when I'm playing alone. Many guitarists who love the tone coming from their amp don't realize that it doesn't work in a mix. I was one of them for years. The patches I make now are thinner than my amp tones used to be, but it's intentional. I have a few patches that aren't thinned out for a band mix for when I am kicking around by myself.

Bottom line, it is what you make it. Thin, thick, FOH ready, solo performance oriented, etc.

D
 
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