tallcoolone
Inspired
Good to finally clear this up.
Ummm.OK... It's a guitar processor guys, not a religion or reason for existence.
Good to hear you are doing better Chris. :encouragement:
Good to finally clear this up.
I'm 48 yrs old, I want Cadillac of sound, not a Hyundai. (nothing wrong with Hyundai's, so don't write me letters).
The point is, no one has any idea whether or not the Helix can or will sound as good or better than the AXE. I've heard horrible YT clips of the AXE as well. Hell, I've heard horrible YT clips of all my favorite amps.
I love the AXE too and if the L6 product sucks that will bear out. But...for all any of us know, you may currently have the Hyundai.
You guys crack me up saying that Line 6 doesn't produce Pro level modeling. I guess The Edge only counts as a Pro when he's using Fractal gear. Line 6 has been making gear that Pros use since their inception. Their modelers have been used on countless Pro recordings. Heck, I bet plenty of the tones y'all are trying to emulate with your Fractal for your cover bands were actually recorded with a Pod kidney bean.
It's silly to be dismissing the Helix tonally based on a couple clips and questioning its build quality based on nothing at all. Line 6 have been doing this a really long time now. They've gotten kind of good at it. I know they've been guilty of regurgitating stuff in the past but this doesn't appear to me to be yet another rehash of the same old thing at all.
I'm in no hurry to ditch my Axe II or FX8 but I sure as heck would like to give the Helix a whirl.
I know there must be folks out there that have them in some beta form in their hands. Let's hear them.
Agreed that AES for live use seems exotic today.agreed - it would be pretty uncommon. I have a hard enough time just convincing sound guys to take a direct analog feed via XLR instead of trying to mic-up my K12 !
AES would be pretty exotic in most live situations.
I wanted to design something portable and affordable enough to get those algorithms into the hands of a lot more players.
I wonder if the Canadian band of the same name can sue Line 6 for stealing their name ???
I did a charity show yesterday. There were 6 bands that played. Here's the guitar gear rundown:
- Classic rock band - the guitar player used a Line 6 combo - sounded pretty good
- Acoustic trio but for a couple tunes one guitar player used a Fender G-DEC (or something like it) - sounded mediocre
- Blues band - one guitar player use a Suhr Badger and some pedals (this rig belongs to the other guitar player in my band) - sounded killer - the other guitar player used a Fender Music Master Bass amp and some pedals - sounded killer
- Hard rock band (my band) - I used a Soldano Hot Rod 25 with the FX8 - sounded killer - the other guitar player was using the previously mentioned Badger - sounded killer
- Rock and dance band - one guitar player used an Ultra - mostly sounded killer but a couple patches were muddy - the other guitar player used an Axe II - sounded killer
- Reggae/Rockabilly band - the guitar player used a Variax into an HD500 - mostly sounded killer but a couple patches were a tad harsh
The piece that's missing in those descriptions is that the audience didn't give a shit about any of the guitar tones because even the worst tones of the day were just fine. As long as the player can deal with the rig and perform well, all of this gear is just fine. So by this time next year I expect to do a show and someone in the lineup will have a Helix and I'll probably be using an AX8, FX8, or Axe II. It's going to be just fine.
I agree with what you said there.
But for myself, I am ONLY interested in getting tone for RECORDING.
I think it matters on CD.
I did a charity show yesterday. There were 6 bands that played. Here's the guitar gear rundown:
- Classic rock band - the guitar player used a Line 6 combo - sounded pretty good
- Acoustic trio but for a couple tunes one guitar player used a Fender G-DEC (or something like it) - sounded mediocre
- Blues band - one guitar player use a Suhr Badger and some pedals (this rig belongs to the other guitar player in my band) - sounded killer - the other guitar player used a Fender Music Master Bass amp and some pedals - sounded killer
- Hard rock band (my band) - I used a Soldano Hot Rod 25 with the FX8 - sounded killer - the other guitar player was using the previously mentioned Badger - sounded killer
- Rock and dance band - one guitar player used an Ultra - mostly sounded killer but a couple patches were muddy - the other guitar player used an Axe II - sounded killer
- Reggae/Rockabilly band - the guitar player used a Variax into an HD500 - mostly sounded killer but a couple patches were a tad harsh
The piece that's missing in those descriptions is that the audience didn't give a shit about any of the guitar tones because even the worst tones of the day were just fine. As long as the player can deal with the rig and perform well, all of this gear is just fine. So by this time next year I expect to do a show and someone in the lineup will have a Helix and I'll probably be using an AX8, FX8, or Axe II. It's going to be just fine.
When is that NOT the case?
Seriously, 99% of audiences don't know shit, nor do they care to know.
Tone debates only matter to the people using them and their online forum brethren, and that's valid enough for us to have the conversation.
Wow, this string got a bit nuts, but figured I'd jump back in to clear up some misconceptions that seems to be floating around, okay, we know it has basically the same computing power as the single channel upcoming AX8, yet they claim it's going to produce FAS quality tone and FX with 4 channels (and I think they're claiming these can all be stereo channels), load 4 IRs, run 4 verbs, etc. Yet on many of their lists of these features they have a disclaimer, stating "depending on CPU usage", so clearly they expect you to run out of horsepower, though they claim that "more efficiant coding" allows this lesser hardware to produce more then what the XL+ can do? You really think their coding is 4 times more efficient then what FAS is using? Probably not, so there must be compromises somewhere...
I think one of the first I noticed is likely the verbs, as at TGP it was stated that the reverbs are re-worked 500HD verbs (they said they do sound better running in the "HX engine"), that all but 2 of the wahs are also ported over, so no, doesn't sound like it will have FAS quality FX, at least "not at launch". A lot has been made of the routing and it does look impressive but, somewhere in that long string at TGP Digital Igloo (I think, may have been another L6 rep) was asked about the 4 channels directly and if it really worked well, could have many FX and I think he answered quite honestly, as he said that someone in testing had run a bass (in serial), vocals (serial) and guitar (in stereo), but that it was pushing the limit and that you might need to lower quality on some effects, etc. So sounds like in the real world, you'd have to go with very simple paths to go with 4 amps, lower the quality on the verb and forget any crazy effects that would eat up CPU.
So no I don't think the Helix is quite as earth shattering as it might first seem, but I'm sure it is a big step up for L6 and Pro-sumer gear in general. I did notice that they said part of the reason that they included the crossover was due to bands like Royal Blood that are splitting their bass and sending the highs and mids out to guitar amps (well with Pitch shifting via a POG), when asked about the POG they said no, it doesn't do pitch shifting as well as the POG (not poly), I think that they are right that a lot of folks are going to want to play around with split bass and octave shifting bass parts for emulated guitar, so may be good to look at incorporating features that would make that sort of thing easier on the Axe (better tracking on bass for the PS - though sounds like team FAS is already on that).
As for these bizarre comments about not caring if 10 year old Chinese slave girls make your gear, or whatever, I like paying extra so my gear gets made by adults who get paid for their labor and have a passion for what they're doing, which is also probably why Cliff won't just sell FAS to Roland, or someone and take off on permanent vacation, he's actually passionate about what he's doing and on the same quest for ultimate tone that we're all on with him.