Atomic Active Cab vs. Matrix Q12a

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Nothing to do with you post -- but I just wanted to let you know I really enjoyed and learned a lot from your video tutorials.

cool, always good to hear it helps people out. hopefully i'll be recording more soon, super busy with a few theatre shows lately. hmm... maybe i should do a quick update video to let people know what's going on!
 
that was my meaning that we are individuals and "hear and feel" things differently. If I hear and feel things in a certain way that I like, no graph in the world could make me change my mind.

exactly. and if you're the only audience (or the only audience you care about) then yes, no chart or "fact" matters. however, the reality with playing music for other people is that it needs to sound good to those other people too, or you may not have a job. the facts can help you determine how other people perceive your sound, which can help to keep you employed.
 
IMO it just small differences i guess. The feel should be there in both. But only you can answer if it works for you.

I have not tried the CLR. I tried the Q12a. But only with presets i made on HS80 monitors at home. And a less than ideal room.
They push sound great. But i would need 3-4 hours alone to really get an idea how good they can sound.

Based on that, i did not get exactly what i wanted. But if i tried this kind of gear in that short amount of time i would not recommend Axe and FRFR either.
It took some time to get useble sounds Axe. It took many many hours to get really good sound. So i can see why someone could give up on FRFR. I did not bother with Ultra. Mesa poweramp and cabs with the Ultra. Sounded killer, but i came to the conclusion that i wanted to hear what front of house get.

I got FRFR to work great. But as i said, i can see why some give up. An amp is simple and familiar to many of us. The cab is narrow in dispertion and freq´s. Easy to get out of the unpleasant "beam" too.

I`m sure LVC could get the CLR to sound great if he had a lot of time. But he found a setup that was easier to get in the right place for him. Little tweaks needed. Great.

That´s why the different systems is good to have in the marked. Just like different guitars, amps and cabs. So many different ears playing.
 
IMO it just small differences i guess. The feel should be there in both. But only you can answer if it works for you.

I have not tried the CLR. I tried the Q12a. But only with presets i made on HS80 monitors at home. And a less than ideal room.
They push sound great. But i would need 3-4 hours alone to really get an idea how good they can sound.

Based on that, i did not get exactly what i wanted. But if i tried this kind of gear in that short amount of time i would not recommend Axe and FRFR either.
It took some time to get useble sounds Axe. It took many many hours to get really good sound. So i can see why someone could give up on FRFR. I did not bother with Ultra. Mesa poweramp and cabs with the Ultra. Sounded killer, but i came to the conclusion that i wanted to hear what front of house get.

I got FRFR to work great. But as i said, i can see why some give up. An amp is simple and familiar to many of us. The cab is narrow in dispertion and freq´s. Easy to get out of the unpleasant "beam" too.

I`m sure LVC could get the CLR to sound great if he had a lot of time. But he found a setup that was easier to get in the right place for him. Little tweaks needed. Great.

That´s why the different systems is good to have in the marked. Just like different guitars, amps and cabs. So many different ears playing.

Exactly -- talking about guitars ... just picked this sucker up yesterday

Suhr Antique Classic T Korina - Natural
Korina body One-piece Korina neck Pau Ferro fretboard Even C medium neck carve 9' - 12' radius Black tusq nut Medium stainless steel frets Hardtail 6 saddle bridge 1.650" nut width Chrome plated hardware Black satin "Shorty" pickguard T control plate T-electro socket JST SSH+ bridge pickup, SST SSV neck pickup

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Man that was a nice one. I really want a tele. A friend of mine is selling a handbuildt brazilian rosewood tele. Neck, fretboard and body is pure Brazilian. It sounds fantastic. Heavy as hell though. I'm keen on buying that tele. Got 2 Suhrstoo. Love them.

Congrats on the Suhr :)
 
You got a really nice axe, LVC. Is it boomy?

Just kidding. :) I want to get me a Suhr at some point.

She sounds perfect through my current Axe setup.

tomorrow night's gig is going to be exciting

1. New amp
2. New Cab
3. New Guitar



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Big fan of both John Suhr and James Tyler


Love their fiddles!

Like them both....but am completely mesmerized by an Anderson Drop Top I picked up.
Same style and price point....but man, I can't believe how good this Anderson plays and sounds.
Something about his frets just feels so different than other guitars.


Two other points:
1) I wish Jay Mitchell still posted here regularly
2) I usually play with the RCF NX12ma....and when I try the Splawn Nitrous Amp...it is crazy boomy for me. Just pointing out that some amps, with certain IR's...are just boomy (for me). I'm sure I'd have the same issue if I had the CLR or Matrix. Good news is....the Axe has a 100 tools to dial it out.
 
I'm posting here just this once to correct this blatant misinformation: I was providing direct support to assist you in dialing in your Axe-Fx. What you were getting out of the CLR was exactly what you were putting into it. Nothing more, nothing less.

I'm back out of here now....
Who was that masked man?
 
Does anyone who has tried one or the other (or both) have any comments on how they feel/respond. To me the feel is equally important.
A dedicated FRFR sound reinforcement system should not impart "feel" or create "response" in a guitar cabinet way. It should be as transparent as possible. To the degree possible, within the limits of loudspeaker design, an FRFR system should just accurately reproduce and amplify what it is receiving.

If you want to run the Axe as a full simulation then all the feel, mojo, vibe, warmth, squish, grease, butter, etc. et. al. is produced by the virtual rig inside the Axe. The completed soundscape, with all its feel, etc., comes out the back end of the unit finished; needing only to be presented at the desired volume. The Axe is capable of this level of simulation. Most sound reinforcement gear is not capable of just reproducing and amplifying the Axe and otherwise "staying out of the way".

Think about it in terms of a traditional rig.

In any given traditional guitar rig, the feel, mojo, vibe, warmth, squish, grease, butter, etc. et. al. is produced by the amp, cabinet and effects. When you mic a traditional rig you don't want the sound reinforcement system to change your sound, you just want it reproduced at a higher volume.

Usually with a mic'd traditional rig, some amount of global EQing is necessary at the sound board for FOH. If the sound reinforcement system is of a reasonable quality this global EQing is to compensate the inadequacies of the room, not the loudspeakers.

For the solo Axe simulation user, assuming a sound reinforcement system of high enough quality, a little global EQing can sometimes be necessary from venue to venue. With a high quality loudspeaker, this will usually only mean slight global reductions in the low frequency. The Axe, through its global EQ section, functions as its own FOH board and handles that part internally as well.
 
You are just as experienced with forums as anyone else. I have no issue with you personally. You've been outspokenly critical of my opinions multiple times in the past, I never used stawman ploys nor accused you of any of the nonsense you are playing here with me when you did so; I'd ask you to drop all the gamesmanship about this disagreement here and now. This isn't about you or me.

Your use of the word 'boomy' and 'boom box' makes your review unreliable to me; those terms are incorrect based on my experience and quantifiable data. It's not subjective - it is measurable and easily replicated by anyone that cares to check it.

Scott, I love you man - but your getting obsessive about the word "boomy" lol. Its a descriptive word - its more about resonance not frequency. Calling the CLR Bass'y and Id agree with you. Personally I dont think "boomy" has a nailed down description re frequency humps.

I believe the CLR is flat - frequency wise. Doesnt mean someone cant personally find it "boomy" ... for them. Personally - on this one - I may go for the Atomic over the Matrix, but not because of any descriptive word.
 
I'm not debating his opinion or preference. I am disagreeing with him on an objective and easily measurable point. His characterization does bear serious scrutiny given the manner it was presented.

You look at the following graphs and explain where the 'boomy' character exhibits itself. Laz is directly asserting the speaker cab itself is boomy. I disagree with him. Nothing more, nothing less. These charts are from Atomic.

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Hum. As others have said really. That is pretty flat as far as speaker curves go, but there is still a 5db difference between around 1100 hz and 120/150hz. 5db is pretty big in the EQ world. Even a 0.5db change can change how a tone is perceived. It is possible that the AFX is dialled in in such a way that the little 2 to 2.5db hump at 120=150hz is whats causing the use of the word "boomy" (which as I said - I dont think is a propper word re frequencies).

That said - if Matrix published their response curve I doubt it would be flatter. It may have little 2db humps in different places - maybe the 800hz to 1Kh range with a corresponding trough at the 100-150 hz range. Wouldnt make it any flatter - or any less flat, however it would account for why LVC found the Atomic boomy, which others feel the Matrix has more mids. Ultimately though Matrix havent published theirs so you cant compare.

Id say the Atomics are flat from that graph, BUT there are LITTLE peaks and troughs that could lead someone with a natural sensitivity in those areas to prefere something else over the Atomic.

To quote Scotts often used, and very sensible phrase .... Its only gear.
 
Hum. As others have said really. That is pretty flat as far as speaker curves go, but there is still a 5db difference between around 1100 hz and 120/150hz. 5db is pretty big in the EQ world. Even a 0.5db change can change how a tone is perceived. It is possible that the AFX is dialled in in such a way that the little 2 to 2.5db hump at 120=150hz is whats causing the use of the word "boomy" (which as I said - I dont think is a propper word re frequencies).

That said - if Matrix published their response curve I doubt it would be flatter. It may have little 2db humps in different places - maybe the 800hz to 1Kh range with a corresponding trough at the 100-150 hz range. Wouldnt make it any flatter - or any less flat, however it would account for why LVC found the Atomic boomy, which others feel the Matrix has more mids. Ultimately though Matrix havent published theirs so you cant compare.

Id say the Atomics are flat from that graph, BUT there are LITTLE peaks and troughs that could lead someone with a natural sensitivity in those areas to prefere something else over the Atomic.

To quote Scotts often used, and very sensible phrase .... Its only gear.


I posted this in my review thread -- but

It is possible what I perceived as Boomy with the Atomic Active CLR Cab has nothing to do with the cab itself but how it is being amplified?

Remember I do not use the cabs as monitors I use them as my only source of amplification at gigs. No FOH --

If the cab designs are both equally flat then the variable between them is the amplification source.

I used two amp sources

1. The built in one in the Atomic CLR
2. The Matrix GT1000

The Matrix amp is designed to drive monitors as well as standard guitar cabs.

Have we been focusing on the wrong thing to nail down the source of the boom I experienced with the CLR?

Again --- I am not using my cabs as monitors. I am using as only source of amplification (at gig volume) for shows.

Could it be that the amp in the CLR works well as a monitor and at moderate volumes but not as well when used as a sole source of amplification with a full band in a club/bar setting at gig volume?
 
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