Atomic Active Cab vs. Matrix Q12a

[Scott Peterson]

conspiracy theories?

Forgot to mention to Scott -- That I actually had Jay Mitchell on a speaker phone while he tried to walk me through how to dial out the boom in my box.

So by implying "conspiracy theories" through the use of the phrase "I find the coincident use of this specific term suspect" is not very well played in my book.

Again I have no dog in this hunt ... but let me think about it... is it possible that others do?

mmmm need to put my tin cap on and go watch the movie "conspiracy theory" again.

I've measured the CLR and my findings and my ears tell me the response graphs from Atomic are correct. There is no low end emphasis. I find that claim there is suspect. Maybe your CLR was broken, I don't know. Have you any such graph from Matrix or have you observed it's low end response varies from their published specs?

Conspiracy theory? LOL. Little bit of a straw man there Laz. I never implied any such thing; I never mentioned conspiracy of any sort. You did. I wonder why you are going there; why are you so defensive?

 

[kmanick]

I find it a bit odd that those who are defending the Atomic are so adamant about it.
what's going on here?, someone found a speaker to be boomy.
He didn't like it, calling "suspect trustworthiness" behind a review could give the impression of the same thing about such glowing positive reviews. I've used plenty of gear that I couldn't gel with off of others glowing reviews.
I thought the SLA-2 was horrific, others (on this forum right here raved about it) same thing with the original Atomic wedges.
I couldn't get rid of mine fast enough, but I know of others that rave about them.
It just "didn't do it for him"
that's like saying to a hard core Mesa dual Recto lover that my Recto sounds like sludge.
To him it may sound like god is speaking, but to me it sounds like crap.
we've got a bunch of people on here who are raving about these, are you actually surprised not every single person under the sun is in the same boat?
that would be pretty arrogant don't you think?
I can't wait for my CLR to get here, but I will give it an honest review, just like I would any piece of gear, I'm glad to see some adverse reviews of equipment. I'm sure we'll see plenty more as more people get their hands on them.

 

[Scott Peterson]

I find it a bit odd that those who are defending the Atomic are so adamant about it.
what's going on here?, someone found a speaker to be boomy.
He didn't like it, calling "suspect trustworthiness" behind a review could give the impression of the same thing about such glowing positive reviews. I've used plenty of gear that I couldn't gel with off of others glowing reviews.
I thought the SLA-2 was horrific, others (on this forum right here raved about it) same thing with the original Atomic wedges.
I couldn't get rid of mine fast enough, but I know of others that rave about them.
It just "didn't do it for him"
that's like saying to a hard code Mesa dual Recto lover that my Recto sounds like sludge.
To him it may sound like god is speaking, to me it sounds like crap.
we've gota bunch of people on here who are raving about these, are you actually surprised not every single person under the sun is in the same boat?
that would be pretty arrogant don't you think?
I can't wait for my CLR to get here, but I will give it an honest review, just like I would any piece of gear, I'm glad to see some adverse reviews of equipment. I'm sure we'll see plenty more as more people get their hands on them.

I can only speak for myself. I have no issue with Laz preferring another product nor his opinion of any given product. Characterizing something incorrectly though, sorry. I have to speak up. I have seen the response graph from Atomic. I have measured it for myself and I have used it - in various venues of all shapes, sizes and character - the CLR.... for better or worse - is not boomy. I find it humorous. I say so. I apologize but it is what it is.

 

[LVC]

I've measured the CLR and my findings and my ears tell me the response graphs from Atomic are correct. There is no low end emphasis. I find that claim there is suspect. Maybe your CLR was broken, I don't know. Have you any such graph from Matrix or have you observed it's low end response varies from their published specs?

Conspiracy theory? LOL. Little bit of a straw man there Laz. I never implied any such thing; I never mentioned conspiracy of any sort. You did. I wonder why you are going there; why are you so defensive?

dude -- I am just responding to how someone interpreted what you wrote. You are very experienced at writing at forums.

Lets recap

1. You implied my review was not fair and balanced
2, You discussed my on-line personlity no sure why - to maybe somehow discredit me? (yes I can be an asshole sometimes I will admit to that)
3. You implied that my boomy comment was suspect because others have use it (still scratching my head over this one)

what is next on the list ... My Nationality? My weight? My good looks?

Dude the CLR did not work out for me and I found it boomy -- what is the big deal? If I said this about the Verve or the Q12 or an Eon would you be reacting the same way?

It is only a piece of gear. I am glad you are happy with your CLR -- I was not and moved on. Such is life!

 

[Scott Peterson]

dude -- I am just responding to how someone interpreted what you wrote. You are very experienced at writing at forums.

Lets recap

1. You implied my review was not fair and balanced
2, You discussed my on-line personlity no sure why - to maybe somehow discredit me? (yes I can be an asshole sometimes I will admit to that)
3. You implied that my boomy comment was suspect because others have use it (still scratching my head over this one)

what is next on the list ... My Nationality? My weight? My good looks?

Dude the CLR did not work out for me and I found it boomy -- what is the big deal? If I said this about the Verve or the Q12 or an Eon would you be reacting the same way?

It is only a piece of gear. I am glad you are happy with your CLR -- I was not and moved on. Such is life!

You are just as experienced with forums as anyone else. I have no issue with you personally. You've been outspokenly critical of my opinions multiple times in the past, I never used stawman ploys nor accused you of any of the nonsense you are playing here with me when you did so; I'd ask you to drop all the gamesmanship about this disagreement here and now. This isn't about you or me.

Your use of the word 'boomy' and 'boom box' makes your review unreliable to me; those terms are incorrect based on my experience and quantifiable data. It's not subjective - it is measurable and easily replicated by anyone that cares to check it.

 

[quark]

It would seem that Matrix could help take some of the subjectiveness out of this discussion by simply publishing their measured frequency response ... they quote 40-20,000Hz but without attaching a +/- db to this data, its pretty useless IMO. If they can attach +/- 2.5db to this number ( Atomic quotes 70-18K +/2.5db), that could make them flatter in the 40-70Hz range right out of the box. I've asked for this data a number of times but haven't received it yet.

 

[Jay Mitchell]

Forgot to mention to Scott -- That I actually had Jay Mitchell on a speaker phone while he tried to walk me through how to dial out the boom in my box.

I'm posting here just this once to correct this blatant misinformation: I was providing direct support to assist you in dialing in your Axe-Fx. What you were getting out of the CLR was exactly what you were putting into it. Nothing more, nothing less.

I'm back out of here now....

 

[Kriig]

It was a reveiw. A reveiw is a personal opinion. No chart can disprove what someone personally like.

 

[Robboman]

Hi there,
It is the same driver used in both, though the internal volume of the Q12 is slightly higher than the volume within the CFR12.
Best regards
Matt

Thanks Matt.

Back to the CLR discussion.. Scott has a wedge and Laz has a cab right? I know Jay says they sound the same.. but is it possible the cab is boomier?

 

[Robboman]

I'm back out of here now....

Awww! Wish you'd stay...

 

[LVC]

I'm posting here just this once to correct this blatant misinformation: I was providing direct support to assist you in dialing in your Axe-Fx. What you were getting out of the CLR was exactly what you were putting into it. Nothing more, nothing less.

I'm back out of here now....

Jay you really do not want to go down this rabbit hole with me. We spent a considerable amount of time on the phone and sincerely appreciate all of your help.

Lets just leave it at that.

 

[Az_Spirit_Crusher]

I just wonder... wouldn't be great if both units were the same good?

Wouldn't be cool if there was no really big difference in the quality of sound you can hear... The only difference would be your musical taste.

I guess it would be easier to look at the problem with this kind of view.

 

[merlin17]

Yes, it was a subjective review. BUT if the CLR is flat (which I assume it is, I don't have one) then it isn't boomy, it's what you put in. If the Q12 isn't sounding boomy with the same source it might be not as flat...

 

[James Cullen]

I just wonder... wouldn't be great if both units were the same good?

Wouldn't be cool if there was no really big difference in the quality of sound you can hear... The only difference would be your musical taste.

I guess it would be easier to look at the problem with this kind of view.

For what its worth I found that when I first got my Axe Fx and Atomic Passive Reactor cabs x2 (old Style) and Atomic 50/50 amp, my clean fender presets were boomy. I then found that after i had dialed them in through studio reference monitors (ATC 100A which are $10,000 MONITORS!) and particularly added low-cut filters in the cab block that the boominess disappeared through the Reactors and FOH.

I suspect the problem here is that the presets themselves may have been boomy rather than the CLR. From what i've heard which included first hand experience of matrix and CFR cab, the matrix gear is not flat and a bit bass light. Therefore it is entirely plausible that your presets sound better through the matrix gear and the CLR is the true sound, ie. boomy because the presets are boomy. i would suggest setting the presets through a flat system first and then comparing. Otherwise you are not starting with a level playing field

 

[brokenvail]

These threads have gotten hairy. A number of things jumped out at me one being Matrix has never claimed they are flat. LVC also never said he wanted or cared about flat he just wanted it to sound good. Merlin's point was something I thought of. If the Matrix feels like a cab it may have some highs and lows rolled off and it is ported I think which will also bleed some low end. I never understood why matrix has not asked Scott to review their active wedge, he already reviewed a power amp for them. If you like him or not agree with him or not guys follow what he says and although not his plan (at least I don't think it is and he says it isn't) he sets trends. I would almost wonder if Matrix thinks he can't be impartial or since they never claimed theirs is flat when Scott says it is not flat guys will avoid it. The RCF became deemed hyped on some frequencies after the CLR was out though those hyped frequencies just like the CLR's boom (who may be a ghost) can be dialed out with a simple low cut. Even Cliff found some boom in the CLR which he latter tried to smooth over by saying "it may have been the room"

To me boom or not for CLR or hyped or not for RCF for example since I am low and high cutting for FOH use. Those frequencies are all cut any way and not an issue and all I am left with is an extremely musical wedge that only makes me smile. My II plus Anderson guitars plus RCF equal great tone every time.

By the way someone posted about the jazz friend and how point a speaker at the back of your knee as the worst way to judge sound. That is true. An old school player often does not care about what FOH hears only what they here. And sound to back of knees is def not the true sound of an amp but we all used to tweak so the sound hitting knees is what sounded good to us not knowing it was crap for everyone else

 

[unFILTERed]

Laz, I know you through years of your Internet persona. We've often disagreed on many things. You've been very critical of my opinions more than once over the years. At some point, that might actually account for different taste, expectations experience and needs. That's fine. But if you give it, you might get it back. This is nothing more than me speaking from another perspective about something I have a lot of first hand knowledge about. I have no issue with your preference of one product over another. I am not insinuating anything other than disagreeing with your characterization of the CLR as "boomy". That's becoming the 'meme' for criticism of the CLR from Matrix owners, yours is not the first time I've read this. I find the coincident use of this specific term suspect. It isn't subjective; it is measurable. Opinion is fine; reality is the CLR - for better or worse - is linear in response to a fault. You can measure and graph it for yourself. There's no hump or emphasis on the low end that would even begin to account for what you are describing. So no, sorry, I'm not buying it. Sorry. I disagree and it's measurable, not just opinion.

hi scott,

i appreciate the time you invest and the knowledge-experience you share on this forum about axe fx and other products.

i downloaded a year a go your presets you shared. and they were all boomy for me on any speaker, headphone, guitar cab, amp i played through...but as i said "for me, for my ears"
i dont think you can measure boominess. LVC used both systems with same settings and he thinks its too much low end...and he shares his oppinion...
i dont think there is anything to come up with numbers, measurements, science thats the way it sounded for him.

best regards,
semih

 

[Scott Peterson]

hi scott,

i appreciate the time you invest and the knowledge-experience you share on this forum about axe fx and other products.

i downloaded a year a go your presets you shared. and they were all boomy for me on any speaker, headphone, guitar cab, amp i played through...but as i said "for me, for my ears"
i dont think you can measure boominess. LVC used both systems with same settings and he thinks its too much low end...and he shares his oppinion...
i dont think there is anything to come up with numbers, measurements, science thats the way it sounded for him.

best regards,
semih

I'm not debating his opinion or preference. I am disagreeing with him on an objective and easily measurable point. His characterization does bear serious scrutiny given the manner it was presented.

You look at the following graphs and explain where the 'boomy' character exhibits itself. Laz is directly asserting the speaker cab itself is boomy. I disagree with him. Nothing more, nothing less. These charts are from Atomic.

 

[levipeto]

hi scott,

i appreciate the time you invest and the knowledge-experience you share on this forum about axe fx and other products.

i downloaded a year a go your presets you shared. and they were all boomy for me on any speaker, headphone, guitar cab, amp i played through...but as i said "for me, for my ears"
i dont think you can measure boominess. LVC used both systems with same settings and he thinks its too much low end...and he shares his oppinion...
i dont think there is anything to come up with numbers, measurements, science thats the way it sounded for him.

best regards,
semih

That just means you have boomy setup

 

[kippiejr]

That just means you have boomy setup

All this "boom" talk reminds me of a song> Cars (cabs) that go boom.... Cars That Go Boom - YouTube

"We like the cars the cars that go "BOOM>" We're tigre and bunny and we like the "boom." remember that tune..As bad as it was.......lol

Just agree to disagree an move on.............

Side note...Has anyone used the same preset and output L > to CLR and Output R> to Q12A and Visa Versa ? One on each side of you and turning each ear Visa Versa? That would probably end the discussion on "Boominess" lol

 

[kmanick]

this is exactly what I'm going to do when I get my CLR but against my RCF NX 12 (and hopefully a Xitone cab if Jay still has his when I get my CLR)
I'm hoping it wows me and I end up keeping it so I can run one out left and one out right.
Should be that cats meow

All this "boom" talk reminds me of a song> Cars (cabs) that go boom.... Cars That Go Boom - YouTube

"We like the cars the cars that go "BOOM>" We're tigre and bunny and we like the "boom." remember that tune..As bad as it was.......lol

Just agree to disagree an move on.............

Side note...Has anyone used the same preset and output L > to CLR and Output R> to Q12A and Visa Versa ? One on each side of you and turning each ear Visa Versa? That would probably end the discussion on "Boominess" lol