Axe-Fx III Firmware 22.00 Release

unix-guy said:
The curve you see in the Amp block is the Amp's response to the selected SIC.

There's no "extra" component required from the amp.

The amp model + the SIC is all that's required.
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K, but the amp's unique "reaction" to the connected cab via Xformer Freq changes is material to what the resulting speaker page curve is. I'm not arguing that somehow something "extra" appears in an amp when a cab is connected. I'm just saying that what audibly influences the curve shown on the speaker page (my bad, I should not refer to that as SIC which is an attribute of the cab only) is both amp and cab selected - not just cab. I think it's misleading to say that the "speaker page curve" is not influenced by amp selection changes only with cab remaining the same.
 
Joe Bfstplk said:
The low and high frequencies that the transformer can't easily pass affect the impedance seen by the tubes, which is why they affect the curve shown, which is a composite of the impedances between the tubes and the speaker-to-air interface. The impedance curve affects frequency response in a way. :)
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I get what you're saying, and it's a reasonable explanation. But I've never seen that in the documentation.
 
Joe Bfstplk said:
  • The curve you see in the display is the curve the output tubes see, which is the speaker impedance curve, as it is affected by the transformer's frequency response. For simplicity's sake, the display is labeled as the speaker impedance curve, since that is the majority of the curve's shape.
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again, the curve on the speaker page is influenced by both amp selection and cab selection. Ok, the amp's influence is due to it's trasformer's response to the cab. Nonetheless - the amp I choose and the cab I choose create that curve.
 
sprint said:
K, but the amp's unique "reaction" to the connected cab via Xformer Freq changes is material to what the resulting speaker page curve is. I'm not arguing that somehow something "extra" appears in an amp when a cab is connected. I'm just saying that what audibly influences the curve shown on the speaker page (my bad, I should not refer to that as SIC which is an attribute of the cab only) is both amp and cab selected - not just cab. I think it's misleading to say that the "speaker page curve" is not influenced by amp selection changes only with cab remaining the same.
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I didn't say that.

The post you made that I responded to said that you need "IC curve data" for every DynaCab and Amp combo.

What I'm telling you is that is already there between the existing Amp models and the default SIC for the DynaCab.

It's all already there...
 
Rex said:
I get what you're saying, and it's a reasonable explanation. But I've never seen that in the documentation.
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Understood, and I'm not amp expert (much the contrary), but my hacker's take from listening to the experts is that when I connect a cab and an amp something special happens - that something special is represented in the curve shown on the amp block speaker page. Both amp and cab contribute to that curve: the amp via it's transformer reaction which affects that curve, and the cab via it's resonating frequencies which affects that curve.

I belabour this only because I think that for the average users among us: it's important to know that there's 2 sides of the dance that the speaker page curve does - the amp side and and cab side - both are influencers. I suspect many here think the speaker page curve is only related to the cab (which is what the post that I initially responded to suggested and why I responded to it - amp selection matters to that curve).
 
sprint said:
K, but the amp's unique "reaction" to the connected cab via Xformer Freq changes is material to what the resulting speaker page curve is. I'm not arguing that somehow something "extra" appears in an amp when a cab is connected. I'm just saying that what audibly influences the curve shown on the speaker page (my bad, I should not refer to that as SIC which is an attribute of the cab only) is both amp and cab selected - not just cab. I think it's misleading to say that the "speaker page curve" is not influenced by amp selection changes only with cab remaining the same.
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sprint said:
again, the curve on the speaker page is influenced by both amp selection and cab selection. Ok, the amp's influence is due to it's trasformer's response to the cab. Nonetheless - the amp I choose and the cab I choose create that curve.
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While all of that is correct, the speaker's impedance curve is a separate thing from the amp.

Though it interacts with the amp, it is separate and belongs just to the speaker. The transformer frequency response belongs to the amp.

The curve in the window shows the combination of the two, which results in the appearance that there are different speaker impedance curves for each amp/speaker combination when there are not. The curve you are seeing, that changes when you swap amps or twiddle the transformer frequency response knobs on the amp's speaker page are a mathematical combination of the speaker's inherent properties and the amp's transformer's inherent properties.

Each cabinet/speaker combination will have its own unique speaker impedance curve that is 100% not affected by the amp, as it is a property of the speaker. A separate curve for each amp that the cab connects to is not required, as it is generated by some behind-the-scenes ugly math (computers LOVE ugly math) done on your behalf by the awesome guys and gals at Fractal. :)
 
All of that said, cabinet resonances show up as little bumps in the otherwise smoooooove curve, too.

Also, the way the air is wiggling in the room also affects (very minutely) the speaker impedance curve seen by the output tubes in the amp, as the wiggling air wiggles the speaker cone and this shows up in the output transformer as flyback voltage, which affects the impedance curve presented to the amp's output tubes. Permanent magnet speakers are also dynamic microphones. Really. So, when the bassist plays a minor second off the right note, and your speakers pick it up, it affects the way your amp's output tubes drive the speakers in your amp in some small way.... Put THAT in yer pipe and smoke it!
 
Joe Bfstplk said:
combination of the speaker's inherent properties and the amp's transformer's inherent properties.
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  • "the speaker's inherent properties" are determined by the dynacab selection
  • "the amp's transformer's inherent properties" which exhibits a response (Xformer Freq) to the cab's SIC and is determined by the amp selection.
Both amp and cab selection play a role in the resulting "Speaker Page Curve" (notice i didn't say SIC or IC).
 
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unix-guy said:
I didn't say that.

The post you made that I responded to said that you need "IC curve data" for every DynaCab and Amp combo.

What I'm telling you is that is already there between the existing Amp models and the default SIC for the DynaCab.

It's all already there...
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not sure which post you mean, but as I said: my bad, I should not refer to the curve shown on the amp block speaker page as IC or SIC
 
sprint said:
not sure which post you mean, but as I said: my bad, I should not refer to the curve shown on the amp block speaker page as IC or SIC
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The selector next to it is labeled "Speaker Impedance Curve" (well, actually, "Speaker Imp. Curve"), which insinuates that that is what you are seeing in the graph when really it is only the majority of the thing you see (and it changes the resulting graphic representation in a very convincing way to help you think it's the only thing happening in the display). Kudos to you for noticing the curve changing when you switch amps!

It's not your bad. It's the label's bad. In the label's defense, there's not really room for the wiki page worth of text explaining why it's the combination of things and not just the speaker impedance curve. In reality, it's the speaker impedance curve you are selecting to participate in the UGLY MATH going on behind the scenes with the transformer frequency response knobs (and the cab resonances). The curve is the result of the ugly math.

This is a tufted titmouse. Though it is tufted, it is neither a cheese-eating rodent nor a lady's body part.
titmouse-480px.jpg
Names, bookcovers, and labels are not always 100% accurate. :D
 
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sprint said:
looks a bit like the bluejay that shits on my deck railing every morning unless I bring it a walnut
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Blue jays are fairly mean-spirited birds. I like owls, crows, grackles, and ravens better - though I've noticed grackles are less inclined to talk to you if you're not wearing black....
 
EDIT: Cabs are now showing up so that's sorted, but I will add that axe edit seems slower than it was before the cabs randomly appeared. It takes a good 30sec after it is opened and on the screen before I can choose a preset.

I seem to be having a problem getting the dynamic cabs to show in axe edit. When I click on the CAB drop down box to choose one all I get is an empty vertical list.I have tried reinstalling both firmware 22 and the dyna cab syx with the latest axe edit. No matter what I end up with what is in the attached pic. Works fine on the unit non turbo model. Will hit up support if I can't get it happening in the next day or so.
 

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Anthony76 said:
EDIT: Cabs are now showing up so that's sorted, but I will add that axe edit seems slower than it was before the cabs randomly appeared. It takes a good 30sec after it is opened and on the screen before I can choose a preset.

I seem to be having a problem getting the dynamic cabs to show in axe edit. When I click on the CAB drop down box to choose one all I get is an empty vertical list.I have tried reinstalling both firmware 22 and the dyna cab syx with the latest axe edit. No matter what I end up with what is in the attached pic. Works fine on the unit non turbo model. Will hit up support if I can't get it happening in the next day or so.
Click to expand...
Try to AxeEdit->Settings->Refresh After New Firmware
 
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