Banned from TGP

[Jeronimo]

For those others to label us as some sort of fan club is extremely insulting.

We've worked hard, and are weary of the B.S. advertising and the riotous adoration of real fanbois of those lower echelons

I’m confused here….the way I read your post is that your are insulted if being labeled a fanboy, and in your next sentence you call out “real fanbois of those lower echelons”? Is that not insulting?

 

[Postretro]

I was surprised at how quickly I became such a big proponent of Fractal modeling to my friends. I am still very sentimental about my tons of old hand-wired amps and components. But, and especially since I am old now, it is just a lot more fun, and way, way more efficient to chase tone with a Fractal modeler. I understand the enthusiasm and the desire to introduce others to what a Fractal modeler can do. I feel it. And, I don't like to see it put down. Right now, I have the same respect for Cliff that I have for Leo Fender, Dick Denny, Jim Marshall, Dave Reeves and Mike Soldano. But, I can still remember how that enthusiasm does look a little "culty" to the "uninitiated ." It was hard for me to believe that a digital product could be as good as this. And, I am also surprised that I haven't gotten tired of the sound after a year. It is telling that most of the attacks against FAS are leveled at the large range of choices, the GUI, beta bugs, or Cliff himself. The tone itself is going to win.

 

[JJunkie]

The upside to this is there's now one one less place for me to have to browse for Cliff's modeling tech insights. I could read that stuff all day.

100%. havent been to tgp in years. this is great for me (sorry cliff)

 

[yek]

The upside to this is there's now one one less place for me to have to browse for Cliff's modeling tech insights. I could read that stuff all day.

Everything with more than momentary value is added to the wiki.

 

[AlbertA]

People in positions of power, regardless of how minuscule that power may be, frequently abuse that power when criticized. This is the reason for the old axiom "If you want to know who lords over you find out who you are not allowed to criticize."

You've done that in the past too though. You banned Jay mitchell when discussing the min-phase transform of IRs.

 

[JTI]

You've done that in the past too though. You banned Jay mitchell when discussing the min-phase transform of IRs.

Jay came back to TGP and has actually done really good (as he can) at keeping the super harsh Jay-ness in check.

 

[AlbertA]

Jay came back to TGP and has actually done really good (as he can) at keeping the super harsh Jay-ness in check.

Yeah TGP mods make no sense to me - that ban, just as Cliffs didn't make sense either - there were many trolls in that IR thread - and a lot of IR producers getting offended because they didn't understand the technical aspects - that's why I rarely post in TGP - its full of nonsense and nobody wants to actually discuss the technical facts.

 

[JTI]

Yeah TGP mods make no sense to me - that ban, just as Cliffs didn't make sense either - there were many trolls in that IR thread - and a lot of IR producers getting offended because they didn't understand the technical aspects - that's why I rarely post in TGP - its full of nonsense and nobody wants to actually discuss the technical facts.

I'll give you my admittedly biased take. I don't know how many more "What IR should I use?" or "What modeler is best?" or "Blind test guess the modeler!" threads we really need at this point. There are a ton of good folks there with a pulse and a sense of humor. Like any good forum. I think some good discussion is had as well as some great laughs. Like any good forum. I didn't think Cliff's ban was permanent as his username was still active when searching over there but not seeing it at the moment. Hopefully they reconsider if he chooses to want to return.

 

[JasonE]

I'll give you my admittedly biased take. I don't know how many more "What IR should I use?" or "What modeler is best?" or "Blind test guess the modeler!" threads we really need at this point. There are a ton of good folks there with a pulse and a sense of humor. Like any good forum. I think some good discussion is had as well as some great laughs. Like any good forum. I didn't think Cliff's ban was permanent as his username was still active when searching over there but not seeing it at the moment. Hopefully they reconsider if he chooses to want to return.

I agree that those types of threads get old very fast.

I also didn't think that Cliff's ban was going to be permanent since I could still see his profile. The profile of the other guy they booted disappeared right away.

 

[Will Chen]

I'll give you my admittedly biased take. I don't know how many more "What IR should I use?" or "What modeler is best?" or "Blind test guess the modeler!" threads we really need at this point. There are a ton of good folks there with a pulse and a sense of humor. Like any good forum. I think some good discussion is had as well as some great laughs. Like any good forum. I didn't think Cliff's ban was permanent as his username was still active when searching over there but not seeing it at the moment. Hopefully they reconsider if he chooses to want to return.

You and I have interacted there a bunch, IMHO that Digital and Modeling forum has just about run it's course. I know these things ebb and flow, but when folks like Jay and Cliff get banned because idiots who think they're experts and trolls bait them into arguments then report them, it's just lame. Not to mention the steady trickle of golden ears folks and "tubes rule!!!!!" users who float in and out of there. I'm still going to pop in there once a day but there's better ways to spend my time at this point.

 

[FractalAudio]

I'll give you my admittedly biased take. I don't know how many more "What IR should I use?" or "What modeler is best?" or "Blind test guess the modeler!" threads we really need at this point. There are a ton of good folks there with a pulse and a sense of humor. Like any good forum. I think some good discussion is had as well as some great laughs. Like any good forum. I didn't think Cliff's ban was permanent as his username was still active when searching over there but not seeing it at the moment. Hopefully they reconsider if he chooses to want to return.

I have no desire to return. When "justice" is meted out like that it's something I'd rather not be part of.

 

[Greg Ferguson]

I’m confused here….your are insulted if being labeled a fanboy, and in your next sentence you call out “real fanbois of those lower echelons”? Is that not insulting?

Fanbois obsess, they don’t talk logically or reasonably about whatever they’re fixated on, because their egos are too involved and often they don’t have the experience that would buffer their fanaticism. TGP is full of them.

I’m after the tools that help me express myself; I have been chasing that dragon for over 50 years and have no qualms changing to another ship that proves it’s better than the one I’m currently on, to mix metaphors. And while I’m on a particular platform I go with its particular flow to understand it and make it work for me, and if I finally reach the point I’m tired of work-arounds I move on. After multiple years and products I remain very convinced that Fractal is worthy of my time. They’re not perfect, so I give them my $0.02, with reasoned arguments why a change or addition makes sense. That’s not being a fanboi, it’s being an engaged customer, an advocate to improve the platform.

Sure, different tools work for different people, and I’m happy to listen to the reasons why when they’re presented logically, but chest-pounding without explanation and reasonable discourse is fanaticism, AKA, a “fanboi”. It’s not insulting to describe someone accurately, it’s insulting to label someone as such when they’re not obsessed and behaves rationally, and has the experience to back it up.

 

[JTI]

Thing is; there are fanboys for every platform. I get it and have no trouble with it.

For whatever reason; FAS fans are the ones that attract the attention whenever people are complaining about "fanboys". I honestly don't get it. There are some good peeps using the QC there now but there are also some sensitive to the point of absolute ridiculous people on that train and it is straight up

 

[Foxmeister]

You and I have interacted there a bunch, IMHO that Digital and Modeling forum has just about run it's course.

I think the issue with TGP and moderation in the D&M forum, in particular, is that it does seem that none of the TGP moderators actually frequent that particular forum - whenever you see an overt "Mod" action in a thread, it is by someone who isn't a D&M forum regular and therefore isn't really au fait with the overall zeitgeist of the D&M forum.

The recent bannings of both @FractalAudio and @James Freeman, both of whom regularly posted relevant and worthwhile content in the forum, when some obvious trolls have been left to their own devices highlights this issue.

 

[JTI]

I think the issue with TGP and moderation in the D&M forum, in particular, is that it does seem that none of the TGP moderators actually frequent that particular forum - whenever you see an overt "Mod" action in a thread, it is by someone who isn't a D&M forum regular and therefore isn't really au fait with the overall zeitgeist of the D&M forum.

The recent bannings of both @FractalAudio and @James Freeman, both of whom regularly posted relevant and worthwhile content in the forum, when some obvious trolls have been left to their own devices highlights this issue.

All of this is QuadCortex related. At least peripherally. James got banned because certain people's identities are so tied to their QC that anything is a personal attack on them. Cliff got booted because one of the two personalities made a thread (in their identity before this last one) about FAS to "level the playing field". The other posts a bunch of whackadoo and gets away with it.

 

[Ron_R]

I think the issue with TGP and moderation in the D&M forum, in particular, is that it does seem that none of the TGP moderators actually frequent that particular forum - whenever you see an overt "Mod" action in a thread, it is by someone who isn't a D&M forum regular and therefore isn't really au fait with the overall zeitgeist of the D&M forum.

The recent bannings of both @FractalAudio and @James Freeman, both of whom regularly posted relevant and worthwhile content in the forum, when some obvious trolls have been left to their own devices highlights this issue.

One of my comments to one of the Mods, that got me banned, was that they actually aren't present and interacting on the forum, for the most part. They only "participate" when something is reported, and then only look at the post reported versus the context of the thread in general. I'm not one to report a post unless it's blatantly racist or Anti-Semitic. Otherwise, I just laugh it off. There are many over there that report anything that even slightly offends them. At which point, the Mods tend to side with them, and suspend/ban people willy nilly.

 

[JTI]

One of my comments to one of the Mods, that got me banned, was that they actually aren't present and interacting on the forum, for the most part. They only "participate" when something is reported, and then only look at the post reported versus the context of the thread in general. I'm not one to report a post unless it's blatantly racist or Anti-Semitic. Otherwise, I just laugh it off. There are many over there that report anything that even slightly offends them. At which point, the Mods tend to side with them, and suspend/ban people willy nilly.

With the way threads go there; context is EVERYTHING. It is probably tough to drop in and see the full scope of discussion when you're just looking at a page full of cat gifs

 

[sprint]

Fanbois obsess, they don’t talk logically or reasonably about whatever they’re fixated on, because their egos are too involved and often they don’t have the experience that would buffer their fanaticism. TGP is full of them.

I’m after the tools that help me express myself; I have been chasing that dragon for over 50 years and have no qualms changing to another ship that proves it’s better than the one I’m currently on, to mix metaphors. And while I’m on a particular platform I go with its particular flow to understand it and make it work for me, and if I finally reach the point I’m tired of work-arounds I move on. After multiple years and products I remain very convinced that Fractal is worthy of my time. They’re not perfect, so I give them my $0.02, with reasoned arguments why a change or addition makes sense. That’s not being a fanboi, it’s being an engaged customer, an advocate to improve the platform.

Sure, different tools work for different people, and I’m happy to listen to the reasons why when they’re presented logically, but chest-pounding without explanation and reasonable discourse is fanaticism, AKA, a “fanboi”. It’s not insulting to describe someone accurately, it’s insulting to label someone as such when they’re not obsessed and behaves rationally, and has the experience to back it up.

nailed it

 

[FractalAudio]

All of this is QuadCortex related. At least peripherally. James got banned because certain people's identities are so tied to their QC that anything is a personal attack on them. Cliff got booted because one of the two personalities made a thread (in their identity before this last one) about FAS to "level the playing field". The other posts a bunch of whackadoo and gets away with it.

I would bet that's it's even more nefarious than that. I believe that users like Kevin Thompson, Waterbound, et. al. are actually paid moles employed by Neural or its marketing agency. This is a known marketing technique and, while technically illegal in the US, is oft employed. Given how slimy Neural has behaved to this point I wouldn't put it past them to use this tactic.

 

[JTI]

I would bet that's it's even more nefarious than that. I believe that users like Kevin Thompson, Waterbound, et. al. are actually paid moles employed by Neural or its marketing agency. This is a known marketing technique and, while technically illegal in the US, is oft employed. Given how slimy Neural has behaved to this point I wouldn't put it past them to use this tactic.

I can't comment on the paid portion obviously. Or not sure if I should comment on any of it?

I got booted from the OG QC thread when I tried to ask a question that someone didn't like. Started a different thread. People who took it personal seemed to really take it personal? Or they were getting paid; one or the other

I still don't understand it. I openly admit to using and loving the Fender Mustang combo and Boss gear for god's sakes! What someone else uses makes no difference to me. If someone wants to rag on COSM all day long; I could care less. Let alone hit a report button about it?