Sticking with the FM3? Upgrading to FM9? Why?

la noise said:
I am not so sure. :) Is there a pre-ememptive and irrational rush by some right now to sell
their FM3s? For damn sure. The problem with this is supply of FM9s is uncertain at best. There is
no telling how many orders from the waitlist will be fulfilled and when. I think a safer bet
is some who have sold off an FM3 "because FM9!" will end up regretting it and wanting an
FM3 back while they wait however long they will have to wait to get their name called from
the waitlist.
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Let's consider: Supply and demand sets prices. Too much supply and not enough demand drives down used prices. New prices are unaffected by demand. If the cost of materials or labor were to increase, so would new prices. New prices would also increase if the architecture of the product were improved significantly. This we see with the FM9. Better processors and more switches than an FC6.

If many sell their FM3s, the laws of supply and demand will determine sales prices if folks wish to remain competitively priced. If they expect to receive what they paid new, they're going to be disappointed. Neither eBay nor Reverb is like that at all. Used is used, and is expected to be priced accordingly.
 
bleujazz3 said:
Let's consider: Supply and demand sets prices. Too much supply and not enough demand drives down used prices. New prices are unaffected by demand. If the cost of materials or labor were to increase, so would new prices. New prices would also increase if the architecture of the product were improved significantly. This we see with the FM9. Better processors and more switches than an FC6.

If many sell their FM3s, the laws of supply and demand will determine sales prices if folks wish to remain competitively priced. If they expect to receive what they paid new, they're going to be disappointed. Neither eBay nor Reverb is like that at all. Used is used, and is expected to be priced accordingly.
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The resale value of Fractal gear breaks all of the rules. I just sold a 2 year old AxeFx III for 90% of retail. There is a global chip shortage which will also drive availability of new products coming to market. Sure, there's a glut of FM3s hitting the market right now driven by the FM9 announcement, but prices are still over $900. New FM3s will likely be in short supply again and the supply of used FM3s will fill that gap--and you can expect to pay at least $900 for one.
 
I’ll be sticking with my FM3 for the foreseeable future. My preference is based on size and portability.

The FM3 is half (-ish) the size and weight of the FM9. While the additional processing power, switches, and expanded capabilities are great—the simplicity and portability of the FM3 rules the day for me. I think the 3-switch layout is brilliant! Once you learn the switching basics and become familiar with layouts, scenes, and other functionality—its more than enough for most guitar hacks. An FM3 running stereo through FOH is plenty luscious for me!
 
la noise said:
I am not so sure. :) Is there a pre-ememptive and irrational rush by some right now to sell
their FM3s? For damn sure. The problem with this is supply of FM9s is uncertain at best. There is
no telling how many orders from the waitlist will be fulfilled and when. I think a safer bet
is some who have sold off an FM3 "because FM9!" will end up regretting it and wanting an
FM3 back while they wait however long they will have to wait to get their name called from
the waitlist.
Click to expand...

One advantage of selling the FM3 (or the old Axe-FX units) is that, unlike other manufacturers, FAS has consistency moving forward with their new products while maintaining the existing features, so you will not look back in regret (except perhaps for the size factor)

On the contrary, I had a bad experience selling my Roland VG-99 in a rush when the Boss SY-1000 was announced, afraid that the price of the VG-99 would drop. The SY-1000 seemed to be superior over the paper, but once I had it I found several features of the VG99 that were not implemented. After a while I did buy another VG-99, and its price has not dropped at all 😅

The same happened with the old VG-8. It had some cool features that were not implemented at the VG-88 or at the VG-99.

These big companies do not have consistency. Probably because they are run by investors and CEO's, and technicians that go in and out, not by a coherent team with a spirit
 
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Sticking with the FM3, I prefer the form factor.
I've joined the waiting list anyways, should I change my mind the next year (I'm in Europe).
 
I'm going FM9, my reason - well first up, I love the size and power of the FM3 - I sold my FC6 (and FC12 and III) so could have had the same number of buttons but the increased size 'just for buttons' didn't work for me.

Dual amps - well will be nice, but I don't need it - and no offence intended - but I really don't think there's an issue with scene switching on the FM3, I get significantly less delay than any Midi unit or dual channel amp I've ever owned.

For me, especially since the last update I'm hitting CPU limits too easily - I can use Reverb outside of the unit (it's all wired up) and that would alleviate it, but honestly since I've switched to stereo - I think the Fractal Reverbs are so good I don't want to, but I want to run them in normal or better mode and I want to run two ultra-res cabs and that really limits other choices on the FM3.

That said - the size of the FM9 with two expression pedals does make me nervous, so never say never...
 
Alan Hoover said:
The resale value of Fractal gear breaks all of the rules. I just sold a 2 year old AxeFx III for 90% of retail. There is a global chip shortage which will also drive availability of new products coming to market. Sure, there's a glut of FM3s hitting the market right now driven by the FM9 announcement, but prices are still over $900. New FM3s will likely be in short supply again and the supply of used FM3s will fill that gap--and you can expect to pay at least $900 for one.
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there is one for sale now for 825, and quite a few under 900 over the last few days.
 
I have an FM3/FC6 as well as the big guy. I’m on the waiting list and will more than likely upgrade to an FM9. Probably sell the FM3 and keep my FC6 for my Axe Fx 3. Pretty happy with the FM3/FC6 for gigging, but the extra horse power and seamless switching with two amps makes me want to upgrade.
 
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Seems to be the feeling on this forum :wink:

I'm sticking with my FM3 because I've got various pedals (overdrives, delays) that I use in a hybrid board. Over the years, there are a few pedals that I've regretted selling - CB Tonal Recall, Line6 DL4, EQD Crimson Drive, JHS Banana boost, PM Heisenberg. I rebought these pedals when I flipped my AX8 and I was waiting on the FM3. I had forgotten how much I enjoyed these pedals and decided to go hybrid with the FM3. Dual amps/multiple reverbs and increased CPU would be great (especially in a worship setting) but I've got my setup pretty dialed in these days. Plus for acoustic/bass gigs the FM3 is perfect to take on the go. I don't struggle with the footswitches - I'm using an expression pedal and an external dual footswitch in conjunction with the FM3. Using chorus, trem, compressor, stereo cab, drives, and plex verb blocks in my FM3 with delays in FX loop and drives before FM3.
 
bleujazz3 said:
New prices are unaffected by demand.
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Uh, yeah, they are. Fractal recently raised prices in part, "due to a global semiconductor shortage..." That's "demand."
If the new guitar you want isn't selling very well (low demand), you'll get a better price for it (assuming you ask.)
That's just 2 easy examples.
 
TSJMajesty said:
Uh, yeah, they are. Fractal recently raised prices in part, "due to a global semiconductor shortage..." That's "demand."
If the new guitar you want isn't selling very well (low demand), you'll get a better price for it (assuming you ask.)
That's just 2 easy examples.
Click to expand...
I agree with your general sentiment, but a “global semiconductor shortage” would be an indirect or even direct supply issue.

update: ”Supply and Demand“ are tightly related so your comment still holds water.
 
fcs101 said:
Tell that to the auto industry.
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Auto industry is affected by a global semiconductor chip shortage currently. There are many unavailable autos and trucks sitting in storage becasue they are unusable without the chips. Prices have climbed because available working or used vehicles are in higher demand. NEW vehicles that don't have the chip waiting to be sold can't be. I did take into consideration the meaning of new and used; also the auto industry.

Alan Hoover said:
The resale value of Fractal gear breaks all of the rules. I just sold a 2 year old AxeFx III for 90% of retail. There is a global chip shortage which will also drive availability of new products coming to market. Sure, there's a glut of FM3s hitting the market right now driven by the FM9 announcement, but prices are still over $900. New FM3s will likely be in short supply again and the supply of used FM3s will fill that gap--and you can expect to pay at least $900 for one.
Click to expand...

This is certainly better news than I'd hoped for. With new FM3s now sold out until mid-September, we'll see if market demand produces a price surge or not. I'd like to think that people who are just beginning to make the transition to Fractal will benefit from buying used gear, while people who've had an opportunity to learn how to work with Fractal can consider making the next step towards FM9 or FX3.

TSJMajesty said:
Uh, yeah, they are. Fractal recently raised prices in part, "due to a global semiconductor shortage..." That's "demand."
If the new guitar you want isn't selling very well (low demand), you'll get a better price for it (assuming you ask.)
That's just 2 easy examples.
Click to expand...

If you're speaking from a buyer's viewpoint, of course. The thing to consider is if you're selling an FM3 and would like to insure a quick sale, price your item competitively and reasonably and don't accept a lowball offer.

GitGuy513 said:
I agree with your general sentiment, but a “global semiconductor shortage” would be an indirect or even direct supply issue.

update: ”Supply and Demand“ are tightly related so your comment still holds water.
Click to expand...

Thanks for supporting my view. Chip shortages will increase available chip costs. Either new or used. That includes most all products that use semiconductor chips, so this problem has a farther-reaching effect than just FM3s or FM9s.
 
bleujazz3 said:
Auto industry is affected by a global semiconductor chip shortage currently. There are many unavailable autos and trucks sitting in storage becasue they are unusable without the chips. Prices have climbed because available working or used vehicles are in higher demand. NEW vehicles that don't have the chip waiting to be sold can't be. I did take into consideration the meaning of new and used; also the auto industry.
Click to expand...
You seem to have an errant view of basic economics (as evidenced in your early post referencing prices of new products). That's why new products go on sale because of downward pressure caused by a lack of demand coupled with too much supply.

The auto industry is easy to demonstrate this with because they must clear out all old stock every year for the new models.
 
My show is automated, so I have no need for a ton of switches and their attendent size and weight, though my FM3's DSP is maxed out which is an issue! I do not want a rack for this as I have a racked AFX2 with various tube preamps and a larger foot controller which works great in that form factor.

What I do want is a Quad-Core FM3 motherboard with upgraded Fan/Power Supply as needed, that I can install myself and update the FW for (no down time), for around $500 - $600 (good profit margin on components, with less hassle!).

They immediately locked the wish thread so forget about it LOL.
 
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