Strange! The more (bypassed) Effects the less gain and real-amp-feeling?

i'm not doubting you sense something. i'm not doubting your years of experience. it's just not present on many other people's systems. i personally haven't tested this specifically, but intend to when i have a day off on sunday.

in your first audio example (the 2nd has been deleted and i didn't hear it), you played the "same" riff both times, it wasn't the same performance each time. honestly, it sounds like you picked harder on one of them, possibly creating more gain. i could be wrong, that's just what it sounds like to me. you also hit another string the 2nd time in the recording, which could support my theory of you playing it harder (more force, less accurate, hit another string).

the GIF that you showed (i know this isn't of the first recording i just referenced): if there was less volume and less gain in one of them, we'd most likely see very different images, not very small changes (again both lower and higher points, suggesting sample rate, not difference in actual signal). they are so similar. how can there be such an audible difference if the images that depict what the audio "looks" like is almost exactly the same?

again, not saying you're wrong, but what you've shown i believe doesn't actually support it. i intend to check this out for myself, but i haven't had this problem since my first ultra in 2008.

i could be wrong. you could be right. i hope that isn't the case though! tone loss for years!
 
Put the looper block in the start of chain, loop a riff, use two rows, split the output of looper block in two: one with bypassed blocks and one with shunts, hard pan the outputs and record on two different tracks in your daw, and check if there is a difference, visually. In your case there should be.
 
Semih Yanyali said:
Put the looper block in the start of chain, loop a riff, use two rows, split the output of looper block in two: one with bypassed blocks and one with shunts, hard pan the outputs and record on two different tracks in your daw, and check if there is a difference, visually. In your case there should be.
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Thanks, but for now I spent enough time in this. I explained my experiences, but I don't want to proof them with all strength (apart from that, it seems that I don't have enough technical skills for that by now). Everyone now who’s open minded can try it on it’s own and come to a conclusion – others can judge without trying. It seem that the gain loss is no common issue and there’s no need for finding the possible causes so far.

Let’s don’t forget, still FW15 sounds unbelievable good. Rock on !
 
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Mind over reality. The power of suggestion is very powerful in audio perception. If you believe you hear/feel something you will likely hear it. This is the whole foundation of "Stereophiles". They believe they hear something and convince themselves yet in blind A/B test after blind A/B test they are proven wrong.
 
Liquid22 said:
I don’t think it’s so easy to explain with self convincing or tricked ears. I play guitar for over 25 years now. I know what I’m hearing and feeling in my fingers. Besides that , why would I expect differences at some blocks and not at other blocks, out of nothing? I was convinced that bypassed block = not-existing block.
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But in reality, it is your brain playing a game with you, you don't control your brain rather it controls us! Placebo is such a powerful thing in medicine, it proves just how powerful suggestion is, how powerful our brain can get with just simple make believe.
 
What's not proofed doesn't exist.... well, thank you for your far-from-distance-diagnosis of my guitar equipment and my brain.
 
Did you check the parameter input imp? You can find it's setting there where the settings for the noisegate are. I guess it's set to auto in your preset? So it could change to a different value when you insert blocks in the grid.
 
They've done studies; 1/3 of people will always agree with what they've been told over seeing conclusive evidence of the opposite. Mothernature conserves blind faith :)
 
666was999 said:
Did you check the parameter input imp? You can find it's setting there where the settings for the noisegate are. I guess it's set to auto in your preset? So it could change to a different value when you insert blocks in the grid.
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That would only be true if the effects were on, bypassed it would go to 1MOhm regardless of the effects in it. At any rate, the looper and vol/pan blocks do not change the impedance.
 
There is a feel and perception thing that happens when tweaking with a guitar in your hands that doesn't happen when you do it re-amped or with the looper, I have noticed this difference you describe many times , with and without effects in the blocks.( By the way ,it happens with real effect units too!) When building a preset it seems to make a large difference when adjusting parameters when I play my guitar, but put it down and tweak with a looper and the changes I thought were big are hardly noticeable. It's very real , not a placebo or imagination ! Feel has a huge impact on how we perceive sound! The input impedence is a factor when adding effect blocks ,I questioned this a while back, and Cliff responded that with no effects in the blocks ( only shunts) switching from auto 1M to to 1M makes no difference,( and it doesn't), but with at least some effects if not most (to my perception)it does make a very noticeable difference , so the impedance changes involved with effects have an impact. Some folks hear things (or feel them) that many can't , that doesn't make it a phenomenon that happens in their heads ! ( I have it and it drives me nuts sometimes!)( Maybe I'm really nuts and only come to reality on occasion) I consider it more of a curse than a gift! Also have played with many musicians that can't hear when they are out of tune(unless it's dramatic.)
 
" so the impedance changes involved with effects have an impact."

Not if they are bypassed. The impedance will set itself (physical switch) depending on the first ACTIVE effect. Only a few of the effects will change the default of 1MOhm and only if the are active not bypassed. This is just how it works. The effects of the impedance change is EASILY measurable.







 
javajunkie said:
" Not if they are bypassed. The impedance will set itself (physical switch) depending on the first ACTIVE effect. Only a few of the effects will change the default of 1MOhm and only if the are active not bypassed. This is just how it works. The effects of the impedance change is EASILY measurable.
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It could till be an impedance issue. Bypassing a block could expose a low-impedance block that's further downstream.
 
Rex said:
It could till be an impedance issue. Bypassing a block could expose a low-impedance block that's further downstream.
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I used the term in plural "they are bypassed" and that is what I said "depending in the first ACTIVE effect".
 
Rex said:
It could till be an impedance issue. Bypassing a block could expose a low-impedance block that's further downstream.
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i have to think that's what it is, since nothing else about bypassed blocks would affect the tone or signal.

he uploaded his presets right? can anyone load them and see if any blocks have the impedance thing going on?
 
javajunkie said:
I used the term in plural "they are bypassed" and that is what I said "depending in the first ACTIVE effect".
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Understood. I was just pointing out a possibility that might not be obvious to everybody.
 
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