Workaround for Multiple Soundcards in my DAW

Jason Scott

Jason Scott

Fractal Fanatic
I've been scouring the net and this forum for posts related to using the Axe FX via USB in conjunction with another sound card in my DAW. From what I've read, a multiple sound card setup seems to work for some people because their DAW allows for multiple sound cards, however it's a real issue for others because they simply can't use multiple sound cards in one DAW. While some people aggregate them using third party software, it seems to be hit or miss. So, I've been giving the issue some consideration and thought I'd run an idea I had by the forum. While it sounds good in theory and I think it'll work, multiple heads are always better than one. That said, I can't test my idea because I ordered my Axe earlier this week and I'm still waiting for it.

I'm currently using a Saffire PRO 14 as my sound card in Windows 7 and a Mackie Big Knob as my monitor controller which is connected to my Mackie monitors. My original idea was to use both the Saffire and Axe in my DAW (Samplitude 11) and just select whichever card I needed for a given track in Samplitude, but alas Samplitude 11 doesn't allow for multiple sound cards. So, my next idea was to run the Axe into the Saffire via S/PDIF which, if it worked, would be fine. However, I've read multiple accounts of people who've had insurmountable issues re-amping the Axe via the Saffire PRO's S/PDIF jacks(eg. only communicates one way). Now, while I might try interfacing via S/PDIF just to see if it works, it seems like the ideal and most convenient method for recording and re-amping is via USB. However, that takes me back to square one -- the problem of using multiple sound cards.

Hence my current idea, which involves keeping both the Saffire and Axe plugged in and running the audio outs of both cards to the Mackie Big Knob, which can monitor up to 4 stereo sources simultaneously. This would allow me to use and monitor the Axe in Samplitude while still being able to monitor the audio in Windows via the Saffire. In other words, I wouldn't be dependent on the Axe as my primary sound card. Thus, when I'm done recording I could turn off the Axe and still monitor audio in Windows via the Saffire. Now, it sounds pretty good in theory, and I can't really think of a serious downside, but maybe I'm missing something.

I'd be interested in hearing your opinion.
 
Jason Scott said:
So, my next idea was to run the Axe into the Saffire via S/PDIF which, if it worked, would be fine. However, I've read multiple accounts of people who've had insurmountable issues re-amping the Axe via the Saffire PRO's S/PDIF jacks(eg. only communicates one way).
Click to expand...

I would recommend trying this, as it works fine here with a Saffire Pro 24. Some users reporting issues may have had trouble understanding the required settings for clock source when tracking vs. reamping. And now with the word clock parameter, the Saffire can be master 100% of the time if you want.

So, with a 2-way SPDIF connection you're able to track guitar via USB w/ Axe as interface, monitoring via SPDIF through the Saffire. Reamp via SPDIF w/ Saffire as interface, hearing the rest of the mix.
 
You mentioned using the Axe as an interface to track and the Saffire as an interface to reamp. Maybe I'm missing something, but how can I use both cards as interfaces (the Axe to track and the Saffire to reamp) if Samplitude only allows the use of one sound card at a time? In order to access the Saffire's S/PDIF jacks it would have to be the active sound card in Samplitude. What am I missing?
 
Just out of curiosity, is there an advantage to switching from Axe to Saffire verses tracking and reamping solely via USB?
 
I purchased a Saffire Pro card for the exact reason Bakerman has suggested. Initially setting it up was a bit confusing (Saffire Mixcontrol is a bit weird coming from Motu gear), but now that I got it set up, I can get set for reamping in seconds and everything comes out crystal clear/uncollored, and with no issues at all. And I don't have to ever switch interfaces in Cubase anymore.

I had the same problems you did. I ran a MOTU 8pre which has 8 actual preamps and no SPDIF connection, so I had to switch back and forth which was extremely annoying. So I looked for something that would solve everything, and the Saffire with its multitude of input/output options seemed great. It solved all my issues with reamping/coloring(the 8pre had preamps the colored the sound). Go the SPDIF route and once you're set up you won't look back.

The only thing that sucks compared to using USB is that SPDIF only has 2 inputs, so in order to actually record a DI signal while tracking I have to split my signal chain in AxeEDIT. I have Channel 1 the wet sound, and Channel 2 the DI sound(I can show you an example of one of my recording patches if you'd like). So in order to record a "Stereo" patch, I always have to reamp it in the end. So I basically have one patch I use for recording with the mindset that I'll probably end up reamping in the end anyway. Which in a way is kind of liberating because you're not too worried about your tone while recording and you can just play. :)

With USB you have your Channel 1/2 being AxeFX Stereo output, and channel 3/4 your dry tracks, which was convenient. But I'm over it. :)
 
I used Sonar for many years, but switched to Reaper mainly because it supports ASIO4ALL. Gotta have multiple sound cards to reamp digitally while monitoring everything.
 
ALaz502 said:
I purchased a Saffire Pro card for the exact reason Bakerman has suggested. Initially setting it up was a bit confusing (Saffire Mixcontrol is a bit weird coming from Motu gear), but now that I got it set up, I can get set for reamping in seconds and everything comes out crystal clear/uncollored, and with no issues at all. And I don't have to ever switch interfaces in Cubase anymore.

I had the same problems you did. I ran a MOTU 8pre which has 8 actual preamps and no SPDIF connection, so I had to switch back and forth which was extremely annoying. So I looked for something that would solve everything, and the Saffire with its multitude of input/output options seemed great. It solved all my issues with reamping/coloring(the 8pre had preamps the colored the sound). Go the SPDIF route and once you're set up you won't look back.

The only thing that sucks compared to using USB is that SPDIF only has 2 inputs, so in order to actually record a DI signal while tracking I have to split my signal chain in AxeEDIT. I have Channel 1 the wet sound, and Channel 2 the DI sound(I can show you an example of one of my recording patches if you'd like). So in order to record a "Stereo" patch, I always have to reamp it in the end. So I basically have one patch I use for recording with the mindset that I'll probably end up reamping in the end anyway. Which in a way is kind of liberating because you're not too worried about your tone while recording and you can just play. :)

With USB you have your Channel 1/2 being AxeFX Stereo output, and channel 3/4 your dry tracks, which was convenient. But I'm over it. :)
Click to expand...

Thanks for your input. The only reservation I have with this setup is that I really want to be able to monitor the wet signal in stereo with the full mix prior to re-amping.

Just out of curiosity did you ever try Bakerman's recommendation; using the Axe via USB to track and the Saffire to reamp via S/PDIF, or were you already doing something similar when you mentioned switching back and forth in relation to the MOTU?
 
Samplitude user here. Always struggled with this issue. When asio4all worked it was nice but too many issues and crashes. What I'm doing now is analog reamping. In blind tests I was unable to distinguish between the usb reamp and the analog reamp. I haven't done any recording in a long time so this is quite a few firmwares ago.

Been meaning to give the whole spdif thing a shot.
 
sheky said:
Samplitude user here. Always struggled with this issue. When asio4all worked it was nice but too many issues and crashes. What I'm doing now is analog reamping. In blind tests I was unable to distinguish between the usb reamp and the analog reamp. I haven't done any recording in a long time so this is quite a few firmwares ago.

Been meaning to give the whole spdif thing a shot.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your input. I'm hopeful S/PDIF will work. I'll post an update when everything's up and running and let you know.
 
sheky said:
What I'm doing now is analog reamping. In blind tests I was unable to distinguish between the usb reamp and the analog reamp.
Click to expand...

You had better luck than me. I tried several different high-quality analog interfaces, but the result when using analog was always extremely noisy. The noise when using clean and light crunch tones was acceptable, but anything with gain was a disaster.

My wish for the next generation of Axe is for two more channels on the audio interface so a second interface is not needed for full-featured reamping. Without ASIO4ALL (or apparently a Saffire Pro), I'm not sure how I'd accomplish the OP's goal. IMO, playing the full mix while listening to the raw pickup track processed through the Axe is mandatory.
 
steadystate said:
Without ASIO4ALL (or apparently a Saffire Pro)
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Doesn't have to be a Saffire Pro, just any interface that can use SPDIF/AES in & out while also being the clock source. Some interfaces won't allow anything at SPDIF In to show up unless you set clock source to SPDIF, Presonus Firebox for example.
 
This thread has motivated me to finally order the AES cable for my Lynx.
steadystate said:
You had better luck than me. I tried several different high-quality analog interfaces, but the result when using analog was always extremely noisy. The noise when using clean and light crunch tones was acceptable, but anything with gain was a disaster.

My wish for the next generation of Axe is for two more channels on the audio interface so a second interface is not needed for full-featured reamping. Without ASIO4ALL (or apparently a Saffire Pro), I'm not sure how I'd accomplish the OP's goal. IMO, playing the full mix while listening to the raw pickup track processed through the Axe is mandatory.
Click to expand...
I know your ears are much better than mine so I did a quick rerun of the reamp test



You are correct, there is more noise in the analog reamp but it's pretty negligible. Also there is the slightest variation in gain, but the two clips are darn close.
 
I agree. I'm actually glad that ASIO4ALL lead me to Reaper. I really like the DAW, and especially like the company and their business model. Once I tried USB reamping (and Reaper), there was no going back.
 
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