WISH: Alternative to global blocks

[AlGrenadine]

These aren't exactly new issues. Programmers figured this stuff out decades ago. Broken link? Check if it's there first, and if not, skip it or error out. There are algorithms for checking for circular links in data structures, too.

I'd be fine if this was implemented in FM9-Edit only. That's still better than nothing. Then there wouldn't be any memory requirements on the FM9.

Yes checking it is easy but what parameters should then be used?

 

[fsharpminor]

+1

 

[yek]

Ok guys I really understand the need to have global blocks on every platform. The suggested wish however has some disadvantages.

• Szenario „the broken link“
  • Several blocks link to a preset that have been removed. What to do?
  • How to remove obsolete links?
• Scenario mutual dependencies
  • Example: In preset #1 block x links to preset #2. In preset 2 block x links to preset #1.
• How is the link to a preset implemented? By number or name? Number is unique, name isn‘t. In case of number: If you move the preset to a different location then you are in trouble.

Maybe making it more complex that it needs to be? ;-)

Just designate a number of adjacent preset slots as the source presets, and put all source blocks in there. These are the "master" presets, as in Johan's post. Think of them as a block library. Use their scene fields to describe the blocks. Now link to them in other presets. Done. Execute the Update command when needed.

No need for a complex checking system. If a link is broken, for example because the source preset doesn't exist anymore, the target block simply doesn't get updated, and the link stays in place. It's up to the user to make it work and keep it that way.

 

[2112]

This would be a brilliant addition.

 

[666was999]

+1

 

[HaPe57]

Maybe making it more complex that it needs to be? ;-)

Just designate a number of adjacent preset slots as the source presets, and put all source blocks in there. These are the "master" presets, as in Johan's post. Think of them as a block library. Use their scene fields to describe the blocks. Now link to them in other presets. Done. Execute the Update command when needed.

No need for a complex checking system. If a link is broken, for example because the source preset doesn't exist anymore, the target block simply doesn't get updated, and the link stays in place. It's up to the user to make it work and keep it that way.

I don‘t want your wish to be more complex than it needs to be. I have never said that this is a bad idea but I want you all to think it thru. There are some more aspects:

• We need the function Unlink current block to preset. Obvious or not?
• Then we also need the function Unlink all blocks in current preset. This is required if you want to export your preset to the Fractal community.
• How do you want the information Block is linked to preset to be displayed (hardware unit and editor)?

It is time consuming to find out which presets and/or blocks have links. The same problem applies to global blocks by the way.

 

[Smilzo]

I think the channels should be global. The block is a "collection" of channel(s). The more user friendly idea I come up is "sessions": I open a session, set and store all the channels I wish, and when I recall the session the patch use them.
Linking the block could be useful indeed, but is more an engineer approach rather than guitarist.

 

[666was999]

It is time consuming to find out which presets and/or blocks have links. The same problem applies to global blocks by the way.

There isn't any problem like that. When you edit a linked block, the global link number gets displayed.

 

[yek]

I don‘t want your wish to be more complex than it needs to be. I have never said that this is a bad idea but I want you all to think it thru. There are some more aspects:

• We need the function Unlink current block to preset. Obvious or not?
• Then we also need the function Unlink all blocks in current preset. This is required if you want to export your preset to the Fractal community.
• How do you want the information Block is linked to preset to be displayed (hardware unit and editor)?

It is time consuming to find out which presets and/or blocks have links. The same problem applies to global blocks by the way.

Unlink current block: of course, a virtual Link:On parameter automatically provides Link:Off functionality

Unlink all: yes, just like the existing Unlink All Globals command.

Visual: global blocks are now indicated by “G” after activating Block Info. So an “L” seems logical.

 

[MrPond]

Would appreciate this "compromise" because I already have a "master preset" where all my main stuff is happening and after edits, I copy everything into all other presets.

 

[Joe Bfstplk]

Just designate a number of adjacent preset slots as the source presets, and put all source blocks in there. These are the "master" presets, as in Johan's post. Think of them as a block library.

Already doing this with a list of my "kitchen sink" templates and a second list of favorite amps. Would be a cinch to add a handful more to cover all bases and link up the blocks to them where appropriate....

+1, BTW....

 

[unix-guy]

I'm surprised there isn't Global on all the platforms. Specially the floor units, Globals are much more important imho live than anything else. I wonder if Cliff is thinking about implementing it on the FM3 and 9 considering that fact. Just seems logical and Cliff has always come off as a logical person.

+1



Amen to that. Never understood why the live products don't have global blocks.

I'm not sure where you guys got the idea that only the FM3 / FM9 are "live" use products.

Many people can and do use the Axe Fx III live. All of the products are live products.

My guess is that Global blocks add some complexity that rules out their implementation on the less powerful units.

They didn't even exist on the Axe Fx III until some time after it was available.

Cliff isn't the type of guy to limit capabilities if he doesn't have to.

If it was possible I suspect we would have them already.

 

[ChristThePhone]

I'm not sure where you guys got the idea that only the FM3 / FM9 are "live" use products.

Many people can and do use the Axe Fx III live. All of the products are live products.

My guess is that Global blocks add some complexity that rules out their implementation on the less powerful units.

They didn't even exist on the Axe Fx III until some time after it was available.

Cliff isn't the type of guy to limit capabilities if he doesn't have to.

If it was possible I suspect we would have them already.

don't know, the flagship always had its own set of extra items. I don't have the specs but isn't the FM9 more powerful than the AceFx2 which has global blocks?

 

[unix-guy]

don't know, the flagship always had its own set of extra items. I don't have the specs but isn't the FM9 more powerful than the AceFx2 which has global blocks?

Comparing the processing power of the FM9 to the Axe Fx II doesn't make much sense - they run different algorithms...

I'm pretty certain either Cliff or Matt said it wasn't possible to add Global blocks.

 

[Smilzo]

I'm not sure where you guys got the idea that only the FM3 / FM9 are "live" use products.

Many people can and do use the Axe Fx III live. All of the products are live products.

My guess is that Global blocks add some complexity that rules out their implementation on the less powerful units.

They didn't even exist on the Axe Fx III until some time after it was available.

Cliff isn't the type of guy to limit capabilities if he doesn't have to.

If it was possible I suspect we would have them already.

There are so many ways to implement a function... with actual architecture, global blocks is something to add, that weight on the system and the memory. I wish a lighter, efficient an user-friendly approach (https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/session-approach-global-channels-maybe.185640). Cliff has his own approach, priority and scheduling and know how to code and the limits and possibilities of Fractal devices. What take Fractal apart from other company is Cliff and the openness (Cliffeness???) to the Fractal community. I think Yek alternative to global block from a axeplayer user perspective is not so friendly, yet clever algorithm. Let's trust Cliff...

 

[ChristThePhone]

Comparing the processing power of the FM9 to the Axe Fx II doesn't make much sense - they run different algorithms...

I'm pretty certain either Cliff or Matt said it wasn't possible to add Global blocks.

I was referring to your statement My guess is that Global blocks add some complexity that rules out their implementation on the less powerful units.

Bottom line is we have zero knowledge as to why global blocks were never implemented on any floor unit so all we can do is an uneducated guess with equal probability of being right or wrong. My guess is it's a business decision and I'm fully aware I might be full of sh...

 

[MrPond]

I'm not sure where you guys got the idea that only the FM3 / FM9 are "live" use products.

Many people can and do use the Axe Fx III live. All of the products are live products.

My guess is that Global blocks add some complexity that rules out their implementation on the less powerful units.

They didn't even exist on the Axe Fx III until some time after it was available.

Cliff isn't the type of guy to limit capabilities if he doesn't have to.

If it was possible I suspect we would have them already.

I did not day FM3/9 are the only live units.
I meant: They are meant to be used live - they are designed to be on the road, not especially in a studio drawer

 

[CodePoet]

I think this idea could be good and could eliminate the need for the separate global block subsystem (if it was chosen to go away). I've been scared off of using global blocks as they've been prime things to stop working for a bit when new parameters come on board - have been bitten by that more than once.

There are some considerations with this system, some mentioned above. As a plus, it would give better visibility to what's in the linked block. With global blocks, you need to manually catalog what the block contains - there's not an easy or passive way to view their contents. To peek at what global block values are, you have to load them into a block and overwrite its current values. Global blocks are also limited to 8 per block type - this would open that up to having a lot more.

 

[Smilzo]

I think this idea could be good and could eliminate the need for the separate global block subsystem (if it was chosen to go away). I've been scared off of using global blocks as they've been prime things to stop working for a bit when new parameters come on board - have been bitten by that more than once.

There are some considerations with this system, some mentioned above. As a plus, it would give better visibility to what's in the linked block. With global blocks, you need to manually catalog what the block contains - there's not an easy or passive way to view their contents. To peek at what global block values are, you have to load them into a block and overwrite its current values. Global blocks are also limited to 8 per block type - this would open that up to having a lot more.

Actual global block are a bit cumbersome... that' why channels should be "global", like a... library. There should be no "global block page" editing a channel the system should ask user if apply change locally or globally. And I wish a block will contain more than 4 channels... global or local or mixed. Channels should also have a name...

 

[unix-guy]

I did not day FM3/9 are the only live units.
I meant: They are meant to be used live - they are designed to be on the road, not especially in a studio drawer

And I meant they are ALL meant to be used live (or in the studio or both).

I would say really they are designed to offer different form factors and various levels of portability.

Additionally, I wouldn't say that Global Blocks are "targeted" for live use. They can be a great convenience and I'd love for them to be on all the units...