Why Hiwatts cannot easily do the Gilmour thing? ("Shine On" preset included)

[Muad'zin]

@fafakiwi

Also, you'll find the feedback is easier to get with loud volumes. And don't be afraid (sacrilege) to use humbuckers!

Well, he does use a high output bridge single coil pickup. I got the Seymour Duncan SSL-5 in one of my guitars. Normally I prefer a humbucker as a bridge pickup but this one does the job just as well.

 

[fafakiwi]

Thanks

@fafakiwi I think a lot of people forget pickups in the quest for Gilmour-like tones. It's important to note the bridge pickup for Sorrow.
The way I approach it is to have a clean Hiwatt with good cabs...right now I'm mixing a hiwatt cab with an SM57 on the left with a Marshall with a R121 on the right or it could be both on each side, I can't remember.

Signal chain is usually something like the following:

• Opto comp
• Maybe a boost (Tube Driver or FET Boost will do - I prefer putting a bit of gain on a Tube Driver) (and can go before or after your Muff)
• Muff with a fairly high gain
• CE-2 (can go before the amp (my preference) or after the cabs. You may also want to do the Gilmour thing and turn the mix down, OR you could pan it to the left, with no chorus on the right, which makes some nice textures)
• Amp and Cabs
• Digital delay 400-500ms (guess) with roughly around 20% mix
• Optional rotary (I don't like it though)

All of the above are guesses without looking at my preset, but it should get you an approximation. I'll check later, when I get home to see how accurate it is!

Needless to say, Sorrow is one of the more obtainable tones that you definitely can get as far as Gilmour is concerned.

Also, you'll find the feedback is easier to get with loud volumes. And don't be afraid (sacrilege) to use humbuckers!

thanks for answer please give me a bit more details on your preset if you don t mind
Especially on amp settings and cabs also .....
I really appreciate
Fafa

 

[fafakiwi]

Thanks

thanks for answer please give me a bit more details on your preset if you don t mind
Especially on amp settings and cabs also .....
I really appreciate
Fafa

I have a strat with a humbucker on bridge.... must check what pick up exactly but should go well for this sound....

 

[Piing]

You're right about using humbuckers. I have installed a Dimarzio Tone Zone DP210 (a P90 in a humbucker format) at the neck of my RG550LTD, and now I play songs like "5A.M" or "And Then..." (from the Rattle That Lock) with a tone that I could not get with the Stratocaster. It has a bit of extra punch that I could not get with the single coils.
I've read that Gilmour actually used a Gibson P90 for recording those songs.

I attach the Quantum 7.02 preset for 5AM with Dimarzio Tone Zone..

BTW: this egyptian lady, Ally Salem, uses just a Roland JC120 with some pedals for playing a whole PF set. I take my hat off.



https://soundcloud.com/amr-andromida
https://www.facebook.com/official.andromida.fans/

 

[Piing]

I rectify: she is not using pedals but a multi-fx pedalboard. I have spotted it at this video, right at the beginning of the second solo:



And I've also seen a Marshall.

[OFF TOPIC]
Worth to see this performance. That's not an easy song to sing! I've heard many lame covers,but this one is amazing:

[/OFF TOPIC]

 

[Jonathan Thomas]

Thanks

thanks for answer please give me a bit more details on your preset if you don t mind
Especially on amp settings and cabs also .....
I really appreciate
Fafa

Hi Fabrice, I wasn't far off with my signal chain. Though delay should be 540ms with a mix of 20%-25%.

I've attached my preset, which runs on Q7.02. The Sorrow tone has the CE-2 in my preset and that can be found in Scene 3. Cheers

PS. The amp will need turning up as I need quiet today! Sorry.
Also worth noting that the amp settings are dialled exactly as Gilmour sets his Hiwatts, regardless of if the Axe FX models the exact settings or not (if it doesn't, then it sounds great anyway - close to my ears!)

 

[fafakiwi]

Hi Fabrice, I wasn't far off with my signal chain. Though delay should be 540ms with a mix of 20%-25%.

I've attached my preset, which runs on Q7.02. The Sorrow tone has the CE-2 in my preset and that can be found in Scene 3. Cheers

PS. The amp will need turning up as I need quiet today! Sorry.
Also worth noting that the amp settings are dialled exactly as Gilmour sets his Hiwatts, regardless of if the Axe FX models the exact settings or not (if it doesn't, then it sounds great anyway - close to my ears!)

i thank you very much Jonathan and i lltry it !!!!!!

 

[Jonathan Thomas]

@fafakiwi how did you get on? Did it get you what you wanted?

 

[fafakiwi]

Hi Jonathan
I m still connected on forum with my cellphone but it s early in the morning here in France
I ll try later today and will give you feedback
Thanks again
Fafa

 

[barhrecords]

@Piing loved the Andromida vids. That outro solo for Comfortably Numb was off the chain... wow kicked some major ass.

 

[DLC86]

Also worth noting that the amp settings are dialled exactly as Gilmour sets his Hiwatts, regardless of if the Axe FX models the exact settings or not (if it doesn't, then it sounds great anyway - close to my ears!)

That usually works great for me too but it's a bit pointless imho for sorrow, in 80s and 90s concerts Gilmour used alembic preamp into hiwatt's power amp, while in recording sessions a mix of hiwatt sa212 and fender bassman

 

[lqdsnddist]

SSL-5 is pretty much Gilmour in a pickup, and its a readily available/low cost pickup you can buy from any retailer. Really pushes an amp way more than a low output vintage single coil, yet you still retain the clarity of a single coil, which sounds a bit different than a more compressed humbucker.

Its not magic, but its great bang for the buck

 

[Piing]

Is the SSL-5 noiseless? I am interested on it, but I have a lot of noise issues and interference from a radio station at the apartment in Bangkok (I can actually hear music and news when I push the overdrive and compressor). That's why the only single coils that I keep are the EMG SA and Dimarzio Area.

 

[Rex]

...I have a lot of noise issues and interference from a radio station at the apartment in Bangkok (I can actually hear music and news when I push the overdrive and compressor).

Is that an AM radio station, by any chance? If so, have you tried cleaning your connections and swapping your guitar cord? If it's an AM station and the signal is strong, any imperfection in the connection could rectify that RF signal and put audio on the wire.

 

[Jonathan Thomas]

That usually works great for me too but it's a bit pointless imho for sorrow, in 80s and 90s concerts Gilmour used alembic preamp into hiwatt's power amp, while in recording sessions a mix of hiwatt sa212 and fender bassman

Yes, he did indeed, however, an approximation of his sound is what I'm after, and for my Sorrow preset, I can get the feedback and a tone I love with those settings so didn't bother with anything else.

I also tried the Tube Pre in a series amp block, I didn't think it added anything worth keeping. YMMV and obviously did

 

[Android]

Thanks all for sharing so much great info! It really helps to have many minds working a single equation....

 

[Brian Decker]

Here it is (preset+cab), let me know what you think

Freakballs... I downloaded this today and gave it a whirl earlier. Used my PRS Brushstroke 24 with bridge humbucker only. Got me straight into Gilmour-land so deep I ended up late to work playing SOYCD for a while . Cleans up and dirties up very nicely in response to my guitar volume knob.

Going to dive deep tonight and setup scenes for 'more dry', 'more wet', 'solo', etc. Thinking I might add a second DRIVE block for more distortion once I have a play.

Question... what did you intend for the VOL/PAN block to do ? I toggled it on and off and didn't hear any difference. I have an external volume expression pedal already working globally but did you have an expression pedal working this block at this specific point in the chain ?

Great work!

 

[DLC86]

Freakballs... I downloaded this today and gave it a whirl earlier. Used my PRS Brushstroke 24 with bridge humbucker only. Got me straight into Gilmour-land so deep I ended up late to work playing SOYCD for a while . Cleans up and dirties up very nicely in response to my guitar volume knob.

Going to dive deep tonight and setup scenes for 'more dry', 'more wet', 'solo', etc. Thinking I might add a second DRIVE block for more distortion once I have a play.

Thanks!

Question... what did you intend for the VOL/PAN block to do ? I toggled it on and off and didn't hear any difference. I have an external volume expression pedal already working globally but did you have an expression pedal working this block at this specific point in the chain ?

I'll go by memory since now I'm on the axe III and changed that preset quite a bit.
IIRC the only volume block is where I split the signal to send the left side only to the chorus block, and that's exactly his purpose: send only the left channel at the input of the chorus (the chorus doesn't have an input select parameter).

 

[Brian Decker]

Thanks!
I'll go by memory since now I'm on the axe III and changed that preset quite a bit.
IIRC the only volume block is where I split the signal to send the left side only to the chorus block, and that's exactly his purpose: send only the left channel at the input of the chorus (the chorus doesn't have an input select parameter).

Ahhhhh..... yep makes sense now comparing to other references stating he put a CE-2 on the left channel (example here http://www.gilmourish.com/?page_id=2117). His tones really are about the subtle modulation bits aren't they.

I'm still on AXE-FX II for now... figure I'll see if an AXE-FX 4 comes out in a couple years and if so leap the III

 

[Patzag]

Thanks!


I'll go by memory since now I'm on the axe III and changed that preset quite a bit.
IIRC the only volume block is where I split the signal to send the left side only to the chorus block, and that's exactly his purpose: send only the left channel at the input of the chorus (the chorus doesn't have an input select parameter).

Wanna share your AXE III Preset? I'd love to try it!