Whats better, connecting SPDIF or TRS connection?

[Fowleri]

For example if I buy an FM3

And I connect it to my audio interface via spdif vs connecting to the XLR outputs.

What’s the main difference?

Would the spdif be “balanced”

If I connect FM3 balanced XLR outputs to my interface balanced TRS outputs with XLR to TRS cables, then I will have a balance connection between FM3 and audio interface

Whats the difference if I use spdif connection instead. Many interfaces have spdif in and out, optical, etc.

Would the sound quality be worse on spdif? What are the advantages and disadvantages

The advantage is that is just one cable and frees up TRS outputs on your interface for other stuff

 

[jamesmarshall]

SPDIF is a digital connection. No need for it to be "balanced" since it transfers digital data. It is stereo and one RCA connection is the send and the other is the receive side of the transmission. If you are connecting the FM3 to another audio interface this would be the best way to connect it, since it will avoid having to do another A/D and D/A conversion. Just make sure you use the proper SPDIF cable and not a typical audio RCA cable.

Not sure why you would not just connect the FM3 via USB and use it as the interface when you want to record guitar. This is the easiest way to do it and gives less chance of complexity or issue.

 

[empinchen]

If you go via SPDIF you skip a round of digital-to-analogue and then analogue-to-digital conversion compared to going through TRS (which is analogue). Depending on the quality of your audio interface this may or may not make a noticeable difference.

All else being equal, you probably want to go with SPDIF.

 

[empinchen]

Not sure why you would not just connect the FM3 via USB and use it as the interface when you want to record guitar. This is the easiest way to do it and gives less chance of complexity or issue.

Cannot answer for the original poster, but for me the reason is I have other gear connected to my interface as well, including monitors.
Also no need to fiddle with different audio interfaces in the OS this way.

 

[Fowleri]

SPDIF is a digital connection. No need for it to be "balanced" since it transfers digital data. It is stereo and one RCA connection is the send and the other is the receive side of the transmission. If you are connecting the FM3 to another audio interface this would be the best way to connect it, since it will avoid having to do another A/D and D/A conversion. Just make sure you use the proper SPDIF cable and not a typical audio RCA cable.

Not sure why you would not just connect the FM3 via USB and use it as the interface when you want to record guitar. This is the easiest way to do it and gives less chance of complexity or issue.

This is the audio interface i plan on getting, will it work? It has spdif in and out, but also optical

I rarely record i just want it for practice and playing.

And i dont want to depend on the computer either otherwise ill just continue using neural dsp

 

[jamesmarshall]

Cannot answer for the original poster, but for me the reason is I have other gear connected to my interface as well, including monitors.
Also no need to fiddle with different audio interfaces in the OS this way.

It adds a layer of complexity for those who may not be savvy enough to deal with it.
For the OP as you and I both have stated SPDIF is the way to go to make it easier and not have to convert the signal twice.
Not that most people will even hear a difference with 2 conversions. It really doesn't start to degrade enough to tell a difference until about 10 conversions before it is noticeable.

 

[jamesmarshall]

This is the audio interface i plan on getting, will it work? It has spdif in and out, but also optical

I rarely record i just want it for practice and playing.

And i dont want to depend on the computer either otherwise ill just continue using neural dsp

Yes, that will work great.

 

[strabes]

This is the audio interface i plan on getting, will it work? It has spdif in and out, but also optical

I rarely record i just want it for practice and playing.

And i dont want to depend on the computer either otherwise ill just continue using neural dsp

The Clarett+ will work, but if you won't be using the 4 mic preamps (most of what you're paying for on that unit) you could save quite a bit of money with a used Scarlett 8i6 gen3 (<$200 total cost). It has extremely flat outputs & line inputs, SPDIF I/O, two great-quality headphone amps (<1 ohm output impedance), the same PC/Mac control software as the more expensive Focusrite units, and the control software actually works reliably and is relatively intuitive to use. I actually "downgraded" from a much more expensive interface from a different company to this one for my home studio because I have outboard mic pres and primarily record guitar + bass via SPDIF anyway so there was no reason for me to pay for more built-in mic pres or "better" AD/DA conversion. The built-in mic pres are just ok, but it has 4 line inputs on the back so I run my outboard vocal chain into those.

 

[Fowleri]

The Clarett+ will work, but if you won't be using the 4 mic preamps (most of what you're paying for on that unit) you could save quite a bit of money with a used Scarlett 8i6 gen3 (<$200 total cost). It has extremely flat outputs & line inputs, SPDIF I/O, two great-quality headphone amps (<1 ohm output impedance), the same PC/Mac control software as the more expensive Focusrite units, and the control software actually works reliably and is relatively intuitive to use. I actually "downgraded" from a much more expensive interface from a different company to this one for my home studio because I have outboard mic pres and primarily record guitar + bass via SPDIF anyway so there was no reason for me to pay for more built-in mic pres or "better" AD/DA conversion. The built-in mic pres are just ok, but it has 4 line inputs on the back so I run my outboard vocal chain into those.

The 8i6 doesnt have anti thump circuitry

The 18i8 does have anti thump and has the same outputs as clarett 4pre.

18i8 is $370 while the clarett 4 is $695 tho on amazon is $610 for some reason

So the 18i8 will work for me but i listened to some comparison between scarlett and clarett. There is a difference in sound. The clarett has the same preamps as the RME babyface pro

Since i have the Scarlett solo 3rd gen

I gon buy the clarett from amazon and compare the sounds if im impressed i may keep the clarett if not ill return and buy the 18i8 lol

 

[jamesmarshall]

The 8i6 doesnt have anti thump circuitry

The 18i8 does have anti thump and has the same outputs as clarett 4pre.

18i8 is $370 while the clarett 4 is $695 tho on amazon is $610 for some reason

So the 18i8 will work for me but i listened to some comparison between scarlett and clarett. There is a difference in sound. The clarett has the same preamps as the RME babyface pro

Since i have the Scarlett solo 3rd gen

I gon buy the clarett from amazon and compare the sounds if im impressed i may keep the clarett if not ill return and buy the 18i8 lol

It will be impossible to tell a difference between the Clarett and scarlet in a dense mix. They also won't have the same mic premps, period. RME makes their own pre amp circuit and Focusrite uses the focusrite preams based off the ISA circuit from their consoles. They have similar specs, however they are quite different circuits.

Are you going to record a full band at once? If not save yourself some cash and get the 18i8. Stop worrying about anti thump, that is marking gobldegook... Just turn off your monitors then everything else. I have my monitors connected to a controller which I turn off first then hit my main switch to power my whole studio down. Monitors are made to be able to handle that "thump" when powering on and off. Otherwise everyone would blow their monitors constantly. Granted it is more for your protection than the monitors in this day and age. Just don't crank up the volume and forget you did and power them down at full volume.

Been doing studio work for 40 years and not blown 1 monitor in that time, and well before your anti thump ever existed in studios.

 

[Fowleri]

It will be impossible to tell a difference between the Clarett and scarlet in a dense mix. They also won't have the same mic premps, period. RME makes their own pre amp circuit and Focusrite uses the focusrite preams based off the ISA circuit from their consoles. They have similar specs, however they are quite different circuits.

Are you going to record a full band at once? If not save yourself some cash and get the 18i8. Stop worrying about anti thump, that is marking gobldegook... Just turn off your monitors then everything else. I have my monitors connected to a controller which I turn off first then hit my main switch to power my whole studio down. Monitors are made to be able to handle that "thump" when powering on and off. Otherwise everyone would blow their monitors constantly. Granted it is more for your protection than the monitors in this day and age. Just don't crank up the volume and forget you did and power them down at full volume.

Been doing studio work for 40 years and not blown 1 monitor in that time, and well before your anti thump ever existed in studios.

I meant converters, not preamps. The Clarett uses the same converters as the Babyface Pro (AK 5388A and AK 4413). The scarlett uses Cirrus Logic CS4272 which is not good apparently. The difference is big.

The anti thump circuitry is a real technology and many people don't experience these pops because some interfaces do have this. Like I said, both the 18i8 and the 4pre have it. I have outgrown my Scarlett solo and need more outputs, and spdif for a fractal.

Why make life harder, when you can make it easier? Doing that sequence is really annoying and the buttons on my speakers are in the back. I can't turn on and off my speakers with the switch of a surge protector either, as it bypasses their soft start/shutdown and creates a big pop and thump every time, regardless if they are all alone in the power strip, tried different brands of strips, same thing.

When I turn them off with the button on back, there is no pop, as they have this soft start/shutdown. If I don't follow the sequence tho, and turn off my Scarlett solo/computer first, the speakers will pop, which is normal I suppose.

I might as well leave my new interface on all the time, that way there will never be pops. I'll activate the speaker standby mode feature, so they sleep and wake by themselves with the computer. My speakers cost $1400, but I got them for almost half the price from a local guitarist who bought them off sweetwater and used them for one mix.

What I may do since I already have a scarlett solo. I'll buy the clarett from amazon and compare them both, if I see is a considerable difference, I'll keep it, otherwise I'll return and buy the 18i8

 

[jamesmarshall]

I meant converters, not preamps. The Clarett uses the same converters as the Babyface Pro (AK 5388A and AK 4413). The scarlett uses Cirrus Logic CS4272 which is not good apparently. The difference is big.

The anti thump circuitry is a real technology and many people don't experience these pops because some interfaces do have this. Like I said, both the 18i8 and the 4pre have it. I have outgrown my Scarlett solo and need more outputs, and spdif for a fractal.

Why make life harder, when you can make it easier? Doing that sequence is really annoying and the buttons on my speakers are in the back. I can't turn on and off my speakers with the switch of a surge protector either, as it bypasses their soft start/shutdown and creates a big pop and thump every time, regardless if they are all alone in the power strip, tried different brands of strips, same thing.

When I turn them off with the button on back, there is no pop, as they have this soft start/shutdown. If I don't follow the sequence tho, and turn off my Scarlett solo/computer first, the speakers will pop, which is normal I suppose.

I might as well leave my new interface on all the time, that way there will never be pops. I'll activate the speaker standby mode feature, so they sleep and wake by themselves with the computer. My speakers cost $1400, but I got them for almost half the price from a local guitarist who bought them off sweetwater and used them for one mix.

What I may do since I already have a scarlett solo. I'll buy the clarett from amazon and compare them both, if I see is a considerable difference, I'll keep it, otherwise I'll return and buy the 18i8

The difference in the two chips you mention is so minimal you would never know in a dense mix. The place that matters in a converter is the analog circuit. All converters today are really great quality and should not mess up a recording or mix like in the old days when cheap conversion would cause all kinds of artifacts in your recordings. Where you will notice a difference is after you pass something through the ad and da over 10 times. This is where a great chip shows itself.

Again the whole pop/thump thing is not really a thing. You just don't like the pop, but it will not hurt your speakers or blow them.

 

[strabes]

The 8i6 doesnt have anti thump circuitry

The 18i8 does have anti thump and has the same outputs as clarett 4pre.

18i8 is $370 while the clarett 4 is $695 tho on amazon is $610 for some reason

So the 18i8 will work for me but i listened to some comparison between scarlett and clarett. There is a difference in sound. The clarett has the same preamps as the RME babyface pro

Since i have the Scarlett solo 3rd gen

I gon buy the clarett from amazon and compare the sounds if im impressed i may keep the clarett if not ill return and buy the 18i8 lol

You'll notice I qualified my recommendation in my OP:

if you won't be using the 4 mic preamps

If you are planning to use the 4 mic preamps on the clarett+ then it's probably worth getting that unit.

However, using SPDIF means your signal stays digital from the output device to the interface, you won't even be using the AD converters for that signal. When using SPDIF or AES, what makes it into your DAW thru a cheap interface like the 8i6 will be identical to that thru any other interface or even just USB using the unit itself as an interface. Not just indistinguishable, literally identical.

The Clarett uses the same converters as the Babyface Pro (AK 5388A and AK 4413). The scarlett uses Cirrus Logic CS4272 which is not good apparently. The difference is big.

The Clarett+ range uses CS43198 DAC converters and CS5381 ADC converters. Not that there would be a distinguishable difference between those chips and the CS4272 with 1 round of conversion.

 

[FractalAudio]

I meant converters, not preamps. The Clarett uses the same converters as the Babyface Pro (AK 5388A and AK 4413). The scarlett uses Cirrus Logic CS4272 which is not good apparently. The difference is big.

The anti thump circuitry is a real technology and many people don't experience these pops because some interfaces do have this. Like I said, both the 18i8 and the 4pre have it. I have outgrown my Scarlett solo and need more outputs, and spdif for a fractal.

Why make life harder, when you can make it easier? Doing that sequence is really annoying and the buttons on my speakers are in the back. I can't turn on and off my speakers with the switch of a surge protector either, as it bypasses their soft start/shutdown and creates a big pop and thump every time, regardless if they are all alone in the power strip, tried different brands of strips, same thing.

When I turn them off with the button on back, there is no pop, as they have this soft start/shutdown. If I don't follow the sequence tho, and turn off my Scarlett solo/computer first, the speakers will pop, which is normal I suppose.

I might as well leave my new interface on all the time, that way there will never be pops. I'll activate the speaker standby mode feature, so they sleep and wake by themselves with the computer. My speakers cost $1400, but I got them for almost half the price from a local guitarist who bought them off sweetwater and used them for one mix.

What I may do since I already have a scarlett solo. I'll buy the clarett from amazon and compare them both, if I see is a considerable difference, I'll keep it, otherwise I'll return and buy the 18i8

CS4272 is superior to the AKM stuff. AKM is low-cost, mass-market stuff. Cirrus makes superior converters IMO. They just don't exaggerate their specs.

 

[Fowleri]

So for my purposes, playing guitar with neural DSP eventually buying a fractal and occasional recordings the 18i8 will suffice I guess

I wont use the 4 front inputs except for my guitar.

I will use spidf to connect a fractal when I do buy one, so I want that option. People give me crap for still not having a fractal but they’re expensive and for now neural DSP serves me well, the fractal is more of an indulgence and im not in a rush to have one

My speakers only need 2 outputs.

I plan on connecting my computer 4k monitor headphone jack to my interface with a 1/8 trs to dual 1/4 ts cables, so I can get sound from my ps5 through my speakers.

Not ideal and not balanced but any other way would require an hdmi extractor, more cables, another power brick, and go from extractor to interface via optical.

 

[Fowleri]

The difference in the two chips you mention is so minimal you would never know in a dense mix. The place that matters in a converter is the analog circuit. All converters today are really great quality and should not mess up a recording or mix like in the old days when cheap conversion would cause all kinds of artifacts in your recordings. Where you will notice a difference is after you pass something through the ad and da over 10 times. This is where a great chip shows itself.

Again the whole pop/thump thing is not really a thing. You just don't like the pop, but it will not hurt your speakers or blow them.

Is there any scientific proof that these “pops” don’t damage speakers and is just fear mongering. Even Focusrite says this anti thump technology is to prevent pops from potentially damaging your speakers.

I researched this all over internet, reddit, audio forum and most people are under the belief it does damage speakers.

For example. Most guitar solid state combo amps make this pop and thump when you turn them on and off so how can it be damaging.

Some do not because they have this relay anti thump circuitry

 

[jamesmarshall]

Is there any scientific proof that these “pops” don’t damage speakers and is just fear mongering. Even Focusrite says this anti thump technology is to prevent pops from potentially damaging your speakers.

I researched this all over internet, reddit, audio forum and most people are under the belief it does damage speakers.

For example. Most guitar solid state combo amps make this pop and thump when you turn them on and off so how can it be damaging.

Some do not because they have this relay anti thump circuitry

All amps do this and have done this forever. When have you ever heard of a guitar amp blowing a speaker just by turning it on? I have 2 4x12 crate cabs in my studio that were my signature models built in 87 and every time I turn off the "mute" in my guitar racks power amp I get a POP, been that way for 30 years with these V30 speakers are still working just fine today and sound the same as always. People can warp things into being however they want them to be so people will buy stuff. It is called marketing.

I have a pair of JBL LSR32s from the 90s and I run a Sampson power amp that is supposed to not pop on power on or off however it always pops every time I have turned it on (since new), again not had to replace a speaker in these 3 way monitors, ever. Now the Sampson does not pop on power off, but whatever.

If this was a real issue everyone would be running out and replacing speakers all the time for the last 60 or 70 years with guitar cabinets, studio monitors, etc., etc.

You are thinking way too hard about this.
I have a 20K pair of Wayne Jones speakers in my studio they have a built-in amp and they pop every time I turn them on. It is totally normal.

Here are some things for you to look at:

https://mynewmicrophone.com/loudspeaker-blow-out-why-it-happens-how-to-avoid-fix-it/
This one says speakers blow due to:
Speaker blow-out most typically happens when the speaker experiences too much signal for too long.

This is saying how speaker thump is normal and what is causing it when an amp dissipates it energy:
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/hear-a-thump-when-turn-amplifier-off.114027/post-1380482

 

[Fowleri]

What about pop and thump that happens if you have the speakers connected to a surge protector (only the speakers) and you turn them on and off via the surge protector?

They’re louder than pops if you turn off interface before speaker.

I read these pops and thumps are because your bypassing the speaker soft start/shutdown and because is getting more energy all at once, so it results in the pop.

If you use the buttons, you’re less likely to hear a pop.

 

[jamesmarshall]

What about pop and thump that happens if you have the speakers connected to a surge protector (only the speakers) and you turn them on and off via the surge protector?

They’re louder than pops if you turn off interface before speaker.

I read these pops and thumps are because your bypassing the speaker soft start/shutdown and because is getting more energy all at once, so it results in the pop.

If you use the buttons, you’re less likely to hear a pop.

Did you read this first post?

https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/hear-a-thump-when-turn-amplifier-off.114027/post-1380482

If your speakers have a circuit that dissipates the energy of the amp in another way then you will not hear that when powering on or off.

Again what I am trying to get you to understand is these pops are not anything to a speaker. they are not going to blow them. Amps do this by releasing the held-up energy usually on startup it is because the power feedback loop is not engaged yet, so the energy needs to go somewhere. If you are using a power strip you are avoiding the circuit in your amp that dissipates the energy. Again this is not a big deal and will not hurt your speakers, it is normal and happens in every single guitar amp since the beginning of time. Heck plugging in a guitar to a powered on amp will do the same thing and make the same click or loud pop, totally normal, just forget about it and move on.

 

[LucasLeCompte]

I use my Clarrett 4 pre with SPIDF with my III and it works great