What is the deal with FRFR cab makers?

Very interesting can you share some ideas?

When you run axe 3 thru aes/ebu into sound card and studio monitors it's sounds big and amazing.
No converting process.
is it possible to make it happen on FRFR ? With DSP built-in.
look at my post above ^
the MiniDsp Ice Power and the Hypex modules both offer AES/EBU and SPDIF
It may be better though to use properly tuned passive crossovers ..and keep the DSP latency down.
 
Wouldn't mind trying one of these (I prefer passive wedges in front of me)
Yamaha CHR12M. No warranty or 'ghost you after you pay' issues....

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Final Update RCF:

I pulled the plug on this repair, cutting my losses now and moving on. As a reminder, repair cost was going to run ~$1000 all in and, as much as I liked that speaker, I just couldn’t choke that down in the end. So, I‘ll just be using the CLRs unless I add an EV to test.

To be clear, the RCF NX12SMA was a workhorse, sounded great, and more than paid for itself over the years. Wait time for repairs (two months for parts, unknown after that) and repair cost are, however, untenable for me.
 
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Final Update RCF:

I pulled the plug on this repair, cutting my losses now and moving on. As a reminder, repair cost was going to run ~$1000 all in and, as much as I liked that speaker, I just couldn’t choke that down in the end. So, I‘ll just be using the CLRs unless I add an EV to test.

To be clear, the RCF NX12SMA was a workhorse, sounded great, and more than paid for itself over the years. Wait time for repairs (two months for parts, unknown after that) and repair cost are, however, untenable for me.
What's your opinion on the NX-12SMA vs CLR soundwise? Thanks!
 
What's your opinion on the NX-12SMA vs CLR soundwise? Thanks!
I had the RCF for several years before the CLR came out, and I loved it. Low profile, plenty of power, great sound. On the downside, the “sweet spot” was narrow side-to-side… great for keeping your sound in your area, less so for moving around. When the CLR came out, several RCF users whose ears I respected gave a thumbs up on the sound. It also had a considerably wider dispersion pattern, so I bought one and gave it a spin.

Speaker to speaker, the sound quality is very similar, as both are pleasant to listen to while playing. The CLR is a touch brighter overall, perhaps “clearer in the high end“ is a better description. The RCF is 200 watts higher rated, though in actual use I didn’t notice one seeming more powerful than the other, i.e. both were capable of more volume than I needed. The CLR did, indeed, have a wider dispersion area that made placement less of a concern. As my monitors are used in wedge mode, and are relatively close, this works well. If they were pole mounted and farther away, the focus of the RCF might’ve been beneficial. That’s not my situation, but I mention it in case it is yours. I’m normally not more than 20 ft away, with 5-10 ft being the norm.

The RCF was a great speaker that went through thousands of hours of gig and rehearsal time before giving up the ghost. I’ve no complaints about it. The service and repair costs, though, make it a one and done thing for me. In fairness, a bit more routine maintenance wouldn’t have hurt, though I didn’t know until now that internal corrosion would be a concern. The CLR, by comparison, required repair in a shorter time period, but cost and turnaround time were better, and I thought it acceptable considering the mileage I put on them. Although I wouldn’t hesitate to use RCF NX12SMAs if they were more cost effective, I’ll be going with a set of CLR Neo MkIIs because they are less costly up front, sound marginally superior to my ears, and are less expensive to repair with less downtime involved.

I hope that’s helpful to you!
 
I had the RCF for several years before the CLR came out, and I loved it. Low profile, plenty of power, great sound. On the downside, the “sweet spot” was narrow side-to-side… great for keeping your sound in your area, less so for moving around. When the CLR came out, several RCF users whose ears I respected gave a thumbs up on the sound. It also had a considerably wider dispersion pattern, so I bought one and gave it a spin.

Speaker to speaker, the sound quality is very similar, as both are pleasant to listen to while playing. The CLR is a touch brighter overall, perhaps “clearer in the high end“ is a better description. The RCF is 200 watts higher rated, though in actual use I didn’t notice one seeming more powerful than the other, i.e. both were capable of more volume than I needed. The CLR did, indeed, have a wider dispersion area that made placement less of a concern. As my monitors are used in wedge mode, and are relatively close, this works well. If they were pole mounted and farther away, the focus of the RCF might’ve been beneficial. That’s not my situation, but I mention it in case it is yours. I’m normally not more than 20 ft away, with 5-10 ft being the norm.

The RCF was a great speaker that went through thousands of hours of gig and rehearsal time before giving up the ghost. I’ve no complaints about it. The service and repair costs, though, make it a one and done thing for me. In fairness, a bit more routine maintenance wouldn’t have hurt, though I didn’t know until now that internal corrosion would be a concern. The CLR, by comparison, required repair in a shorter time period, but cost and turnaround time were better, and I thought it acceptable considering the mileage I put on them. Although I wouldn’t hesitate to use RCF NX12SMAs if they were more cost effective, I’ll be going with a set of CLR Neo MkIIs because they are less costly up front, sound marginally superior to my ears, and are less expensive to repair with less downtime involved.

I hope that’s helpful to you!
Very helpful Rick and thank you for the detailed response. Sounds like the CLR, NX-12SMA and EV PXM-12MP are all in roughly the same ball-park. Think I'm going to just sit tight with my CLR's. Sooner or later, someone will come out with an FRFR monitor that is the next level above the current faves around here.
 
Very helpful Rick and thank you for the detailed response. Sounds like the CLR, NX-12SMA and EV PXM-12MP are all in roughly the same ball-park. Think I'm going to just sit tight with my CLR's. Sooner or later, someone will come out with an FRFR monitor that is the next level above the current faves around here.
I've used a CLR live for years and just got a EV PXM-12MP.
Had my first gig with it last weekend and I'm completely satisfied with it.
In fact I'm going to start using it instead of my CLR as it's smaller, lighter and louder.
I got it as a backup in case my CLR goes down. I have triggered the circuit protection many times which makes me wonder.
If you're looking for a backup or replacement to your CLR have no fears about the EV.
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FINAL UPDATE CLR: (Though feel free to keep the thread going with your experiences for others!)

The repaired DSP/Power section arrived Wednesday. I reassembled everything and immediately scared myself. I was next to the speaker and reached over to strum the strings on my guitar (hanging on a stand) to test sound and it was horrid... 100% high end and raspy as could be. Then I noticed I had managed to drag a cord around my expression pedal while wiring up, and auto-engaged the wah, full on. Corrected that self-induced heart-stopper and everything sounded as expected.

It has been a while since I ran the CLR at gig levels, and it immediately reminded me of why I started using it in place of the RCF. GREAT sound, full and transparent; an immersive sort of guitar environment. Glad I got it fixed. Tom gave me 2 years warranty on the repair, although I hope it'll be unnecessary. I'm going to keep these inside (not stored in the equipment trailer as before) and I expect that will help them last even longer. I am also not gigging at anywhere near the rate I was pre-COVID, so I don't think I'll be wearing it out any time soon.

I also decided to stay with a matched set, as I got a waitlist deal on the current Neo Mk II, which was going to be cheaper than the repair on the NX12SMA. That one arrived today, and I can clearly hear what those who have been using two of them have been raving about all these years. It's really like a big set of headphones when you can hear the separation of delays or chorusing happening in mix. Totally happy with the sound.

So, I started this thread railing on FRFR makers for their inconsistencies, service issues, and up front costs. In the end, I decided to support Atomic coming back and reclaiming its good name and reputation amongst Fractal users. Yes, I am well aware I might live to regret it, and it'll be all on me this time if I do. In the end, I suppose, I'm just that kind of guy. I like their product, and I want them to do well. Hopefully, that faith will prove itself a wiser move than it may appear. If not, well, you won't hear me crying. At least, after learning about the EV, I already know what the next option will be if this all goes south on me!

So, I have a pair of light Neo CLRS, where one can also be the other's backup, and I'm looking pretty "Atomic" in my space, having the two CLRs, a 50-Watt tube 1x12 Reactor cab, and a Reactor 50/50 Stereo tube power amp for my passive cabs. Time to go make some noise!
 
FINAL UPDATE CLR: (Though feel free to keep the thread going with your experiences for others!)

The repaired DSP/Power section arrived Wednesday. I reassembled everything and immediately scared myself. I was next to the speaker and reached over to strum the strings on my guitar (hanging on a stand) to test sound and it was horrid... 100% high end and raspy as could be. Then I noticed I had managed to drag a cord around my expression pedal while wiring up, and auto-engaged the wah, full on. Corrected that self-induced heart-stopper and everything sounded as expected.

It has been a while since I ran the CLR at gig levels, and it immediately reminded me of why I started using it in place of the RCF. GREAT sound, full and transparent; an immersive sort of guitar environment. Glad I got it fixed. Tom gave me 2 years warranty on the repair, although I hope it'll be unnecessary. I'm going to keep these inside (not stored in the equipment trailer as before) and I expect that will help them last even longer. I am also not gigging at anywhere near the rate I was pre-COVID, so I don't think I'll be wearing it out any time soon.

I also decided to stay with a matched set, as I got a waitlist deal on the current Neo Mk II, which was going to be cheaper than the repair on the NX12SMA. That one arrived today, and I can clearly hear what those who have been using two of them have been raving about all these years. It's really like a big set of headphones when you can hear the separation of delays or chorusing happening in mix. Totally happy with the sound.

So, I started this thread railing on FRFR makers for their inconsistencies, service issues, and up front costs. In the end, I decided to support Atomic coming back and reclaiming its good name and reputation amongst Fractal users. Yes, I am well aware I might live to regret it, and it'll be all on me this time if I do. In the end, I suppose, I'm just that kind of guy. I like their product, and I want them to do well. Hopefully, that faith will prove itself a wiser move than it may appear. If not, well, you won't hear me crying. At least, after learning about the EV, I already know what the next option will be if this all goes south on me!

So, I have a pair of light Neo CLRS, where one can also be the other's backup, and I'm looking pretty "Atomic" in my space, having the two CLRs, a 50-Watt tube 1x12 Reactor cab, and a Reactor 50/50 Stereo tube power amp for my passive cabs. Time to go make some noise!
Cool! May your trust turn out to be well founded.

So they’re actually shipping new product now? How long was your wait?
 
FINAL UPDATE CLR: (Though feel free to keep the thread going with your experiences for others!)

The repaired DSP/Power section arrived Wednesday. I reassembled everything and immediately scared myself. I was next to the speaker and reached over to strum the strings on my guitar (hanging on a stand) to test sound and it was horrid... 100% high end and raspy as could be. Then I noticed I had managed to drag a cord around my expression pedal while wiring up, and auto-engaged the wah, full on. Corrected that self-induced heart-stopper and everything sounded as expected.

It has been a while since I ran the CLR at gig levels, and it immediately reminded me of why I started using it in place of the RCF. GREAT sound, full and transparent; an immersive sort of guitar environment. Glad I got it fixed. Tom gave me 2 years warranty on the repair, although I hope it'll be unnecessary. I'm going to keep these inside (not stored in the equipment trailer as before) and I expect that will help them last even longer. I am also not gigging at anywhere near the rate I was pre-COVID, so I don't think I'll be wearing it out any time soon.

I also decided to stay with a matched set, as I got a waitlist deal on the current Neo Mk II, which was going to be cheaper than the repair on the NX12SMA. That one arrived today, and I can clearly hear what those who have been using two of them have been raving about all these years. It's really like a big set of headphones when you can hear the separation of delays or chorusing happening in mix. Totally happy with the sound.

So, I started this thread railing on FRFR makers for their inconsistencies, service issues, and up front costs. In the end, I decided to support Atomic coming back and reclaiming its good name and reputation amongst Fractal users. Yes, I am well aware I might live to regret it, and it'll be all on me this time if I do. In the end, I suppose, I'm just that kind of guy. I like their product, and I want them to do well. Hopefully, that faith will prove itself a wiser move than it may appear. If not, well, you won't hear me crying. At least, after learning about the EV, I already know what the next option will be if this all goes south on me!

So, I have a pair of light Neo CLRS, where one can also be the other's backup, and I'm looking pretty "Atomic" in my space, having the two CLRs, a 50-Watt tube 1x12 Reactor cab, and a Reactor 50/50 Stereo tube power amp for my passive cabs. Time to go make some noise!
Sell that RCF for parts (surely somebody will blow their speaker or crack their box)
 
Cool! May your trust turn out to be well founded.

So they’re actually shipping new product now? How long was your wait?
I was on the list from past work, so when they were in stock a couple of weeks ago I ordered one. Wait was just that few weeks as they were testing them for release right then. They’ll be listing them as they get stock built up. I assume it’ll be like the list here… as fast as they can get them ready and out! My impression talking with Tom is that the part sourcing issue has improved, and it’s limited manpower as much as anything. They just added help in CT, so I take that as a good sign of future stock availability.
 
Dredging up this old thread to commend the service department at RCF. Though the parts are still unavailable, they managed to find what was needed and returned it to me at no cost. Certainly unexpected, and obviously the parts issue is still an issue, but it goes to show that the people behind the company are decent and did what they could do in a pinch. I railed on them with good reason, but I’m glad to be able to come back in and also give them a deserved “well done.” Now that it’s back, I was pleasantly reminded of how great this speaker sounds. I’m glad to have it back.
 
Dredging up this old thread to commend the service department at RCF. Though the parts are still unavailable, they managed to find what was needed and returned it to me at no cost. Certainly unexpected, and obviously the parts issue is still an issue, but it goes to show that the people behind the company are decent and did what they could do in a pinch. I railed on them with good reason, but I’m glad to be able to come back in and also give them a deserved “well done.” Now that it’s back, I was pleasantly reminded of how great this speaker sounds. I’m glad to have it back.
At a grand to repair it you may as well buy one new! Nice that RCF came through for you, that's good service!
 
Oh yeah, I’d given that one up for dead. I meant to throw out the case for it, but finally my procrastinating paid off! Lol
This is where a company shows it true colors! They knew they had a customer that needed a repair and had parts to fix it presumably used and took care of you! Even though FR is a niche market in the modeling world it is connected to the PA world and word gets around.

In today's market one has to do as much as they can to lift up ones business as much as possible! I would say that RCF made a smart move and it's paying off as we type!
 
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I could buy EV just because itsnt owned by Uli yet. Damn Uli and mass crappification of everything that used to be good and pure.
 
Holy cow… was looking into a Xitone because I remembered people raving about them in the past, and I’m stuck in “Atomic Purgatory” looking to get a minor issue in my CLR repaired. Came back and searched the forum on Xitone and read through the thread on all the issues people are having even getting cabs they’ve already paid for! Wow. “Atomic CLR, the Sequel.” A past issue with RCF didn’t go any better. I had an NX12SMA making odd pop noises every now and again and couldn’t find anyone who could do RCF-approved repairs on it. It just seems to me that if it has a power amp in it, then it’s intended to be thrown away when it breaks. And it will break! All of these high-quality, expensive brands do it and you’re left high and dry when they do. How about just making OEM replacement amps readily and economically available? Nope, not even that.

Make excuses if you want, but the repeated ghosting on your customers is poor business and reflects on these proprietors personally. Good people don’t do that, plain and simple.

I‘m with everyone here on wishing FAS made a guitar cab for their modelers. But they don’t, so what’s the best way forward? Are we at a spot where you just plan to drop $1k or more on a powered cab every three years and throw the old one on the scrap heap? I am sure that there’ll be responses saying “I’ve gigged my cab 20,000 continuous nights, never turning it off even when it was in the trailer, and it still works like new!” I’m happy for you if that’s you, but realize that you’re among the blessed few.

By the way, I’m not crying and wailing about it. I’m seriously looking for the best option on all-in-one powered FRFR guitar cabs going into the future. Powered PA cabs? They seem to hold up better, but is that the best option we have? Home made cabs might be a thing. I know you guys have ideas, and I’m not alone in the frustration and disappointment over the great sounding but poorly supported options we’ve had so far.

I hear a lot of “modelers are taking over” and “tube amps are a thing of the past” statements, yet I have several tube amps making great music today at 30 to 60 years old! And if something were to break, it’s easily repaired. I can’t get 60 months out of a FRFR without issues, and can’t get them repaired when they do break. And now I read you can hardly get a powered cab delivered even when you’ve already paid for it. Someone has to be doing it better. A level of resiliency in FRFRs will really move modeling forward, but the amplification isn’t keeping up with the modelers. I really want to stay small with the rig, and not go back to racks, amps, and cabs. FM9 —> FRFR --> done.

What’s out there? Anything on the horizon?
Amen, FRFR is the strangest industry in the world. All of these makers are so nice if and when you get in touch with them. I have spoken to Tom about a CLR issue and he made it seem like I was about to get the best customer service in the world then......... a year later my CLR was fixed. A YEAR!!!!!!
 
Amen, FRFR is the strangest industry in the world. All of these makers are so nice if and when you get in touch with them. I have spoken to Tom about a CLR issue and he made it seem like I was about to get the best customer service in the world then......... a year later my CLR was fixed. A YEAR!!!!!!
Agreed. There’s no excuse for how it’s been. I’m hopeful it’s improving at Atomic, but the number of customers alienated more by being ghosted than the actual equipment failure is going to be a real stain on their reputation. Many washed their hands of it and won’t do business with these makers, and I can’t blame them a bit. I guess I’m a sucker for a good come from behind win, so I’m still playing my Atomic and RCF speakers. They sound wonderful, but I’d be lying if I said I’m not dreading future repairs. In this case, I sincerely hope they prove those fears to be unfounded.

The EV speaker has absorbed a lot of the business that slipped through Atomic’s hands, and they’ve so far taken care of their customers. Smart, good business there. Let’s hope more follow that example. Oh, and let’s also hope Meyer Sound calls me to be a beta tester for their monitors. :)

A man can dream, can’t he?
 
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