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What causes this volume difference?

sl33py

Member
Loving FW18... just one Q: Is a real life Princeton (Prince Tone) about 1/2 as loud as the Princeton Reverb (Prince Tone Rev), with both on 10?

The reason I ask is because in the same patch, just switching between the two amps doubles the volume. The Prince Tone NR is somewhere between. This is with the MV on 10 in the patch, level -2, input drive 5, no other effects, same cab etc. Is it because the amps are being modelled accurately compared to each other and the Reverb has an extra tube IRL (I presume, for the reverb), giving it more volume when cranked? Just trying to understand this, as I've noticed a similar situation with a few amp variants so far.

Thanks in advance.
 

brianv4

Power User
I've no real world experience with those amps but I can't imagine they're that drastically different in volume. Just use the output meters in the I/O menu to help you balance the two amps.

I started a thread in "wishes" a while ago asking for amp output levels to be equal but most were against it stating its not authentic. Wasn't referring to master volume but actual output level and that's what we do when balancing program levels anyway! It's not a big deal to balance your programs, just sucks when you're flipping thru amp models auditioning. If output level was that important for authenticity, an IR created from a 4x12 with a speaker sensivity of 96dB should be way louder than a single 12" speaker with a sensitivity of say 84dB. I rest my case, LOL.
 

yek

Moderator
Moderator
Loving FW18... just one Q: Is a real life Princeton (Prince Tone) about 1/2 as loud as the Princeton Reverb (Prince Tone Rev), with both on 10?

The reason I ask is because in the same patch, just switching between the two amps doubles the volume. The Prince Tone NR is somewhere between. This is with the MV on 10 in the patch, level -2, input drive 5, no other effects, same cab etc. Is it because the amps are being modelled accurately compared to each other and the Reverb has an extra tube IRL (I presume, for the reverb), giving it more volume when cranked? Just trying to understand this, as I've noticed a similar situation with a few amp variants so far.

Thanks in advance.
The loudness of an amp sim has no relation with its real life equivalent.
Just adjust the Amp Level parameter, it has no effect on tone.
 

ethomas1013

Power User
I started a thread in "wishes" a while ago asking for amp output levels to be equal but most were against it stating its not authentic.
That make no sense at all. The amp models relative loudness has nothing to do with their real world counterparts or being "authentic". Anyone who would oppose a FW adjustment to the output levels to make them a bit more consistent is way off base, IMO.

And, no, a Princeton Reverb is not twice as loud as a non-reverb Princeton from what I remember (it's been a while since I played either).

But Yek has the answer. Just adjust the output levels of the amp in your patches to make them relatively consistent from patch to patch. I use the VU meters in the Utility page to do that. That's a really handy feature.
 

barhrecords

Axe-Master
I have a good vintage Princeton. For non master volume amps, keeping the Fractal master on 10 would simulate the real amps.

But for two different real amps, how the volume control (i.e. the Fractal input setting) affects volume depends on the particular amp, how it's setup and which input you are plugged into etc. For example a silver faced Princeton will normally be louder setting for setting than a blackface. But the blackface will get into a sweet overdrive sooner (in general, amps vary all over the place).

For an amp model, who knows what affects the volume of the algos? Just use the amp block level to get what you want. Not a big deal.
 

FractalAudio

Administrator
Fractal Audio Systems
Moderator
A Princeton Reverb has an extra gain stage due to the reverb recovery. Hence it has more gain.
 

Thomas Larsson

Experienced
I also started a thread like that. Nobody seemed to agree. As you say , at the end of the day we want the same level .
Another interesting fact, if you move your speaker cable from a 1-12 to a 4-12 the signal at the mic drops 6dB , namely a fourth of the power . Since the 4 12s are sharing the same power. :)
 
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