Well that was somehwat underwhelming...

Shenks

Shenks

Experienced
Last night I ventured round to a local bar to see a band, they had already started by the time I got there and the first thing I heard was a rather indistinct guitar tone. I then spotted there was no guitar amp on stage for the 1st guitarist so immediately I wondered what he was running through to FOH.

Err... no bloody idea as nothing immediately obvious (must have been tucked away in a rack somewhere I thought) and just a generic midi foot controller at his feet.

Listening to more songs by the band and although the guitar sounded OK-ish in the lower registers, it was still lacking that immediacy and impact. When he got up to the dusty end of the neck it became very thin and lifeless.

At the end of the set I managed to speak to the guy on the desk who told me the guitarist was using a Kemper and had never had a tone so good before. OK, tone is subjective, and I know that this experience may not be representative of the KPA in general, but to say it was the best tone ever makes me wonder what sort of tone he had previously?

So... although I know when I get my own Axe FX I have high hopes, I just wondered if anybody had ever heard an AXE FX in a live setting that was disappointing? I suspect the answer will be 'no' but even allowing for the fact that we are often at the mercy of the sound engineer I just wanted confirmation that I am not worrying needlessly.

Over to you guys...
 
brianv4 said:
Some people have the touch, others don't. That guy may not sound good playing thru an axefx either
Click to expand...

I think you're probably right there... no matter how good the output (i.e. amp/cab/modeller etc.) , if the input is lacking (i.e. fingers) then it's never going to be an experience to remember (or at least an experience to remember for the right reasons).
 
Shenks said:
I think you're probably right there... no matter how good the output (i.e. amp/cab/modeller etc.) , if the input is lacking (i.e. fingers) then it's never going to be an experience to remember (or at least an experience to remember for the right reasons).
Click to expand...
The sound men also have a huge impact on the sound - on stage the guitarist may have though he sounded brilliant but the PA sound could be affected negatively by the sound guy who clearly though the guitar was the best sound ever! We play at one venue where there are two different sound guys - one gets what we want and one has his own ideas and does his own thing and the sound is night and day.
 
Modelers can sound perfect but the speakers that project them don't sound the same as guitar cabs many times. That Kemper tone could have been the cats meow but who would know through the PA?
 
I have heard many guitarists with top shelf guitars, amps, and cabs play with tones I don't like. The Axe-Fx will be no different. It won't compensate for a lack of knowledge about dialing in good tones, nor the wide variety of tastes of players and their audiences.
 
Swan1 said:
The sound men also have a huge impact on the sound - on stage the guitarist may have though he sounded brilliant but the PA sound could be affected negatively by the sound guy who clearly though the guitar was the best sound ever! We play at one venue where there are two different sound guys - one gets what we want and one has his own ideas and does his own thing and the sound is night and day.
Click to expand...

^^^^
This is very true. Worst thing is that you may not realize it until you are all done.
 
The Axe-Fx will project whatever tone you dial in. To paraphrase a post I read elsewhere, the Axe doesn't hold your hand. It will allow you to dial in a crappy tone just as easily as a great tone.

I've heard crappy live tones from Marshalls, Fenders, Boogies, and everything else. If that's a reason to avoid a purchase, you'll never buy anything. :)

To paraphrase your post, "I heard a Kemper sound crappy once. Maybe the Axe-Fx is no good live." Doesn't make sense. ;)
 
In small clubs there are often dead spots where the FOH speakers are not filling the room.

If you use a backline amp it tends to fill out the sound in those off axis spots.

With a modeler if you don't have side fills or back fills it can drop out of the mix if it is only in the FOH.
 
When going direct, you're at the mercy of the quality of the preamps on the house console. I've had a few nightmare-ish shows where the venue was using low-budget mixing boards.
 
Here's what I don't understand....on my rig....all of the presets are mind blowing.....and I'm pedigree'd. Not a bedroom warrior.

How is it that we justify that some people can pick up an axe fx, load a stock preset and just suck? Doesn't seem right...

Sure they could be lesser musicians, have lesser technical ability....but tone....that should be a given with the axe. It's not like a amp where you _have_ to dial something in. You just turn it on, load up the lastest firmware and rock. Just add water. As far as FoH goes...well....that's a door we all walk through alone...and good luck with that.



My buddy put it best. I had one experience with a kemper and was so impressed I went out the next day and bought an AxeII. My rig is simply amazing. It's _the_best_tone_ I've ever heard....and I have a lot of time spent in front of the rigs of giants.
 
brianv4 said:
Some people have the touch, others don't. That guy may not sound good playing thru an axefx either
Click to expand...

I think you are correct. You can't blame everything on the gear. Nor can the gear compensate for any absence in feel or lack of playing technique or programming skills etc. Don't know if that was the case but someones sound depends on so many factors that you can not pinpoint it on the gear only.
 
I have a few places I run sound that are a nightmare to make sound good. Its an ongoing project to modify the sound system and the room to accomodate live shows better. The stage sounds amazing when your playing on it. But for the crowd there are maybe 2 small spots where it sounds good (the sound booth is not one of them) The rest sounds horribly unbalanced and void of highs. It drives me nuts.

As for have you ever heard an axe-fx sound bad. I have a guitar that sounds like garbage on majority of the presets. The pickups are so hot and peaky in places that requires you to spend time to tweak and accommodate it. Though I admit I am a pretty shitty guitar player. I am severely lacking in the chops department. Though I do know how to engineer and get the most out of recordings and live sound.
 
Rex said:
To paraphrase your post, "I heard a Kemper sound crappy once. Maybe the Axe-Fx is no good live." Doesn't make sense. ;)
Click to expand...

LOL... that's not quite what I meant so apologies if it came across that way. I was more interested in finding out if the Axe FX in a live situation had been a sub-optimal experience for any of the many users on here and what was needed to rectify the situation. By the sounds of it (no pun intended) a lot seems to rest with the sound engineer so that's the same as it always has been.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rex
A "soundman" makes or breaks the tone. When I played the bar scene in New Orleans, we were so disheartened by the complete lack of competence of each and every "soundman" we encountered, we bought our own system and did our own sound. Even the big events such as the Jazz and Heritage festival had garbage sound on all stages (this has changed in recent years, but only regarding the big events).

Fortunately, the better venues in Las Vegas have competent sound guys and great PAs. But I still feel for the working club musician when I think back to the horrendous sound quality that was the norm for clubs and bars. I wouldn't want someone to judge the Axe in this setting.
 
I have heard an Axe Fx sound bad live, and I was the one standing in front of it. I have also heard Mesa gear sound that way in the same environment. Both times were the first gig or two out with new equipment that I did not have opportunity to dial in with the band beforehand. Perhaps this is the case with this Kemper user, as it seemed his bandmates were happy with his new tones. Scary what his old ones may have been...

Just saying that even great gear is as good as it's set up to be, and bad settings will sound bad on an Axe Fx too. I think that's the point most here are making, and I agree.
 
Rick said:
Just saying that even great gear is as good as it's set up to be, and bad settings will sound bad on an Axe Fx too. I think that's the point most here are making, and I agree.
Click to expand...

Yes indeed... I think when I do make my AXE FX II purchase later this summer I'll be very wary of any deep editing (used to be a necessity with previous modellers I've owned) until I know exactly what it does to my sound at gig levels. I'll just stick with the basic presets with maybe a little EQing here and there.
 
brianv4 said:
Some people have the touch, others don't. That guy may not sound good playing thru an axefx either
Click to expand...

On one gig with a player from famous band from the 80s, something quite similar happened. Here's a run-down of his rig:

3 modded fender combos
FX rack had 2x TC 2290s and Lexicon PCM verbs
6spc. rack filled with Palmer load boxes (back in the day when you couldn't get the PDI-3)
Beautiful vintage Strat, Tele, and Les Pauls

It was mic'd and DI'd into the 'A' rig...

I've heard better tone from 13yr. olds in a music store :shock
 
Shenks said:
LOL... that's not quite what I meant so apologies if it came across that way. I was more interested in finding out if the Axe FX in a live situation had been a sub-optimal experience for any of the many users on here and what was needed to rectify the situation. By the sounds of it (no pun intended) a lot seems to rest with the sound engineer so that's the same as it always has been.
Click to expand...
No sweat.

The Axe can deliver great tone in any situation. If you run direct, it gives you a huge advantage over traditional cab rigs when it comes to sounding good in FOH. And it gives you more options than anything else when it comes to dealing with a suboptimal room.

When it comes to live playing, that's about as good as it gets.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom